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Build an active rf probe.

dr*audio

Fish fingers and custard!
When troubleshooting tuners, there is a need to check the gain in each rf stage to see where it is being lost, or to check the output of the local oscillator. To do this you need a probe with a high impedance, low capacitance input, so as not to load down the rf circuit and give a false reading. The probe also must have a low impedance output if you are going to use it with a spectrum analyzer, which has a 50 Ohm input impedance. I needed such a probe but they are very expensive, so I decided to design one. I figured an opamp would work if I could find one that had high enough bandwidth. I found such an opamp, the OPA683DBV, with a 200MHz bandwidth, more than enough for AM and FM broadcast bands. I built it on a junk prototype board from work, but you could make your own pcb layout or use perfboard. The opamp in the schematic below is configured for unity gain, however, I measured 20dB of gain, probably because the output impedance of the opamp is lower than 50 Ohms, so going into the 50 Ohm input of the spectrum analyzer you get more voltage swing. The OPA683DBV is designed for +/- 6.5V power supply maximum. I am running mine at +/- 5V. You can run it off a single supply, but then you have to add biasing resistors on the input, to run it at mid supply, and the resistors will govern your input impedance, which you want to keep very high.
Here is the schematic:
ActiveRFProbe.jpg


Here is what the board looks like:
ProbeAmpPCB.jpg


It's a good idea to shield your board so it doesn't pick up noise or rf to cause false readings. I used brass.

AssemblyWithShield.jpg


This is just the amplifier for the probe. You could just attach a probe tip right to the board, like a nail, and a ground lead. I made a probe with a cable I can attach to the board. I made it out of a cheap giveaway pen, with a small finishing nail for the tip, epoxy-ed into the top cap of the pen, which I shoved into the end where the tip went. I soldered the cable to the tip and to a ground lead which I inserted through a hole I drilled in the side of the tube.

Probe.jpg


For the power supplies I used 2 wall wart supplies. Here's what the whole system looks like. Note that I covered the amplifier with electrical tape to keep from shorting something out if it drops into what I'm working on:

CompleteSystem.jpg
 
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That is very cool. I guess I'm only a little suspicious of the length/inductance of the ground wire, as the active probes I've seen like to ground right at the tip.

It's very cool though.
 
I might have to shorten the ground wire, you are right. At these frequencies it may be ok. The design is modular so I can take a piece of semi-rigid cable or flexible cable with an SMA connector on one end and a pigtail at the other end, screw that into the input connector and use it as a probe, with the shield as a short ground connection.
 
Hi Doctor,

If that works, that is awesome. If it still detunes the RF when it's connected, you might want to try a resistor right at the tip. With the RF traveling up the length of coax to get to the op-amp, that length of cable will be a stub. Adding a resistor (100~1000 ohms) should attenuate the reflections from the stub. You could even go more fancy and add a shunt resistor to the back side of the input resistor to establish a 50 ohm source impedance for the stub section, then terminate the op-amp's input with 50 ohms. The upside would be good signal integrity for the Spectrum Analyzer's signal. The down side would be reduced signal level with a larger contribution of noise. Good luck. What is the frequency range of your Spectrum Analyzer?
 
Here's an update. I hadn't used the probe yet when I posted this, I had only probed the cal output of my spectrum analyzer and looked at the 280MHz signal. Everything seemed fine until I tried to use it on a tuner. I found the thing was oscillating with the probe and cable attached to the input. I overlooked that some opamps do not like to have a capacitive load on the output. Well, when you configure the opamp for unity gain by shorting the output to the negative input, any capacitive load on the input gets translated to the output. So the capacitance of the cable was causing it to oscillate. To solve this quickly and easily, I stuck a 10K 1/2 Watt resistor into the connector, trimming the lead to the same length as the pin on an SMA male connector, and put heat shrink tubing over the body and connector to hold it in place. Then I soldered a 3" ground lead to the body of the connector and I use the lead of the resistor as the probe tip. It works perfectly, even with the 3" ground lead. I used it to troubleshoot a tuner last night and it made it a breeze to find the problem!:thmbsp::thmbsp: So now I recommend a 10K resistor in series with the input, and don't put a cable on the input, but integrate the amp board into a short probe. You could cut a pen barrel to make a short probe and just run a wire down the barrel to the tip.The barrel might be useful in tight situations where you need a longer reach. On mine I might make some kind of tip I can attach to it to lengthen it if need be.
 
Here's an update. I hadn't used the probe yet when I posted this, I had only probed the cal output of my spectrum analyzer and looked at the 280MHz signal. Everything seemed fine until I tried to use it on a tuner. I found the thing was oscillating with the probe and cable attached to the input. I overlooked that some opamps do not like to have a capacitive load on the output. Well, when you configure the opamp for unity gain by shorting the output to the negative input, any capacitive load on the input gets translated to the output. So the capacitance of the cable was causing it to oscillate. To solve this quickly and easily, I stuck a 10K 1/2 Watt resistor into the connector, trimming the lead to the same length as the pin on an SMA male connector, and put heat shrink tubing over the body and connector to hold it in place. Then I soldered a 3" ground lead to the body of the connector and I use the lead of the resistor as the probe tip. It works perfectly, even with the 3" ground lead. I used it to troubleshoot a tuner last night and it made it a breeze to find the problem!:thmbsp::thmbsp: So now I recommend a 10K resistor in series with the input, and don't put a cable on the input, but integrate the amp board into a short probe. You could cut a pen barrel to make a short probe and just run a wire down the barrel to the tip.The barrel might be useful in tight situations where you need a longer reach. On mine I might make some kind of tip I can attach to it to lengthen it if need be.


Hello Dr Audio
I found this old thread when I was looking for an RF detector probe, I am trying to repair a Sherwood receiver The FM tuner works but has real low signal strength.
So I got lucky and found a Sound Technology 1020A but now I need a probe to hook up to my Oscope to test the tuner.

So a few questions If I understand correctly You needed to modify the design
1) Put a 10k resistor in series with the input correct?
2) Ground lead connected to input connector body?
3) It is important to not increase the lengths of the input lead and ground wires?
4) For the 1.0uf caps could I use electrolytics I think so....
5) For the .1uf caps are these films?
6) You said "You could cut a pen barrel to make a short probe and just run a wire down the barrel to the tip."
If I was to try this what would be maximum length is not this what caused you to remove your wire from the initial design?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts.
 
All caps should be ceramic. Electrolytic caps are no good at rf frequencies. Keep the ground lead short, 3" max. Otherwise you will pick up noise through the ground lead and get false readings. Likewise if you put an extension on the input, keep it short, 3" max. I have not needed an extension yet, I just use the 10K resistor. Yes, 10K on the input is what you want.
 
This is a very cool project... I may build something similar myself.

However, there is one fatal problem with the schematic shown: you need some kind of DC bias path to the non-inverting input of the 683. Otherwise, the opamp will float in and out of operation, and will not function reliably.

A resistor from Pin 3 to ground would do the trick. The input bias current of the 683 is high, like 5uA, so I would use something under 10K. This resistor will set your input Z, too.

If you really want to get a high input Z, you could try a larger resistor. But, then you might want to put a similar resistor in the feedback path to reduce offset voltage, and bypass this resistor with a cap.

-k

PS- a second issue is that I don't think the 683 is unity gain stable. So, using it as a follower might result in some oscillation or response peaking. If you bump the gain up to, say, 4x, you could then pad the input of the circuit to allow a higher input Z along with lower offset. The net result would still be unity gain to the scope. Let me know if this is interesting to you and you need more detail.
 
Ken,
Oops, I did neglect the input bias resistor. I will have to add that when I get the chance. I want to keep the input impedance high so I will try 100K. As it works with an infinite bias resistor right now, I don't think I will get enough offset to slam it into the rails. I will have to look at the data sheet again to see if it is unity gain stable. That may be why I had the oscillation problem without the 10K on the input.



This is a very cool project... I may build something similar myself.

However, there is one fatal problem with the schematic shown: you need some kind of DC bias path to the non-inverting input of the 683. Otherwise, the opamp will float in and out of operation, and will not function reliably.

A resistor from Pin 3 to ground would do the trick. The input bias current of the 683 is high, like 5uA, so I would use something under 10K. This resistor will set your input Z, too.

If you really want to get a high input Z, you could try a larger resistor. But, then you might want to put a similar resistor in the feedback path to reduce offset voltage, and bypass this resistor with a cap.

-k

PS- a second issue is that I don't think the 683 is unity gain stable. So, using it as a follower might result in some oscillation or response peaking. If you bump the gain up to, say, 4x, you could then pad the input of the circuit to allow a higher input Z along with lower offset. The net result would still be unity gain to the scope. Let me know if this is interesting to you and you need more detail.
 
Ken,
Oops, I did neglect the input bias resistor. I will have to add that when I get the chance. I want to keep the input impedance high so I will try 100K. As it works with an infinite bias resistor right now, I don't think I will get enough offset to slam it into the rails. I will have to look at the data sheet again to see if it is unity gain stable. That may be why I had the oscillation problem without the 10K on the input.


http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/texasinstruments/opa683.pdf

I think the input resistance of the non-inverting i/p is about 50K.

I'm really interested in the amp working without a DC bias path. Could it be working only for the time while C1 charges up? Or with signals big enough to rectify across the first-stage i/p transistor? Unexpected, so please post if you figure anything out. Thanks!

Also, 10 or 20 Ohms in series with C6 on the output might better isolate the amp from the load capacitance, and help assure stability. (Otherwise, the capacitance of the scope cable can rotate the feedback phase close to 90 deg somewhere up near the UG bandwidth of the chip, precipitating oscillation.) ((This is why higher gain amps are actually MORE stable than unity gain, but now we are getting into the next level of opamp circuit design;))

-k
 
The pics indicate that most of the parts are surface mount. Was the pc board a commercial prototyping board or something custom made where you work?
 
Ok now I am confused what would the circuit look like with the suggested changes?
I am looking for a probe to use with an oscope to measure RF in FM tuners any suggestions?
 
Ok now I am confused what would the circuit look like with the suggested changes?
I am looking for a probe to use with an oscope to measure RF in FM tuners any suggestions?


If the OP would like me to sketch an update, I will be happy to, next time I am near a CAD machine. It's only a few resistors different from what is posted. But, I get the sense he is happy with his build.

If I draw it up:

- bandwidth?

- gain?

- input Z?

-k
 
If the OP would like me to sketch an update, I will be happy to, next time I am near a CAD machine. It's only a few resistors different from what is posted. But, I get the sense he is happy with his build.

If I draw it up:

- bandwidth?

- gain?

- input Z?

-k

I really do not know the answers for your questions. What I was looking for is an RF probe to use to troubleshoot an FM tuner with a Tek Oscope so I believe the

bandwidth should be around 200MHZ?

Gain ? You tell me

Input Z think this should be high?

Thanks
 
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Don,
The board was a proto they were throwing out at work, for some other use. I hacked it up with an Exacto knife to make what I needed.

Ken,
I will look into the input resistor and stability issues at a later date. The thing is working now, with very low signal levels, I can trace the rf through all stages of the tuner and check gain. I don't have the time to remove the shield and mess with it, and it's working as is for some reason.:scratch2:
 
Hi...

Attached is a quick markup of you circuit. (Sorry, it's ugly and and unsimulated, but it should give you and others an idea what I was thinking.)

Also attached are two other approaches. I'm liking the FET buffer, as it should be very wide bandwidth and hi Z, as well as being simple.

Glad your circuit is working! A bit mysterious to me, but there's no arguing with success. Are you sure the op-amp is functioning as expected, rather than shunting the signal out along the feedback path? (IE- are you getting a gain of exactly one, and a very high input impedance at, say, 100KHz?) I'm not trying to bug you about this at all... I'm just trying to learn how that chip works, since I can't figure it out! I have to build it for sure now.

-k
 

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I just realized I never updated this thread! I did add the 100K input bias resistor to ground and now it works properly and is stable. It does not load the rf circuit under test or detune it at all. I did this at least a year ago and I thought I went back and updated the thread.
 
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Do you think you'll post a final design? I'm kinda interested as well. I'm getting a spec an soon, mainly for work stuff, but I wouldn't mind futzing around a radio front end just to learn stuff.
Here's the spec an, it's an SDR actually.
https://www.signalhound.com/products/usb-sa44b/

That's impressive for the price!
The schematic shown is the final design, just add a 100K resistor from pin 3 to ground, and a 10K in series with the input cap.
 
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