Are Nakamichi's really THAT good?

Bigerik

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
Was talking to a tech today who has been doing warranty work on Teac decks since forever. Knows the products inside and out. Asked him how it would compare to my Nak 681ZX that is still in sickbay. He said the Nak will eat it up and spit it out. Just no comparison whatsoever. I told him I was very happy with the Teac, and he said it was a fine deck, but the Nak is just on a totally higher level.

Is this possible? Is the difference really THAT big???
 
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I had almost the same conversation with the guy I recently bought my Nak ZX-7 from. He made a similar comment.

I've owned some of the best studio and hi-fi cassette decks from Akai, Teac, Tascam, and ... Nakamichi.

I would say the answer to your question is that when they are maintained and working well, and properly used (adjusting bias and azimuth for each tape) ...

YES! Good Naks are that much better! :yes: :music:
 
Please remember that we HAVE to talk about these pieces of equipment as they are today, not what they were like when new. Argueably, many decks can be brought to better than new specs, with new electronics, better rubbers, etc, so everything is variable. I may think my deck works perfect, and is ok and it may be way out, but I try ;-)...so it really depends on what you are comparing.

The lowest 2 head Nak is no contest against a TOTL Teac. The 681ZX was a TOTL in its time, like $1600 when new, so OF COURSE, if it's up to snuff it would eat it up and spit $600 Teac out. And to anyone who's listened to high quality music it's painfully obvious, like, "I better put this on ebay with a $20 BIN ASAP" kind of obvious. Apples to apples, Nak only had competition from other very high end consumer electronics (Akai, B&O, Tandberg, Revox, a few others) . But were ALWAYS WAY more expensive for the features and published specs of it's competitors (except maybe Revox, who published worse specs and higher prices), yet they STILL sold well, better than similarly priced, high end decks, IIRC. Even discounted they were still higher than most others list prices! IMHO, (and I am by no means a Nak expert in any sense, just a user) their strengths were that they brought a very high level of synergy to their products, great controls, great heads, great electronics, great adjustability, etc, etc. so compared to the average deck of the time, they had very few equals. They pushed what they saw as the envelope. When I play a high quality pre-recorded tape on either of the Naks, I have to A-B to the CD to tell the difference..not so with any of my other decks. I can tell it's a tape on them. Naturally, I've not heard every high quality deck, but I've heard a lot of them, both when they were new and my ears were young, and now, when I KNOW I can't be hearing as well as back then, and no other deck I ever heard compared to a TOTL Nak of the same era. They are normally colorless, whereas almost every other deck seems to add (or subtract) something to music, though it may not show up when you do a frequency sweep. When I play something new and still get that sh1t eating grin when the music plays, vs thinking "hmm, that bass ,( cymbal, what ever,) doesn't sound quite right," I know Nak did something right. Luckily they built so friggin many of them, that they can still be maintained.

That said, the Revox B710 & B215 are built better, (which I agree with), but don't sound as sweet. Supposedly Tandberg 3014s (when they work) sound better. I had a friend (still do) in the 70's & 80's that swore by Tandberg, and he had a few pieces, and they sounded great. But every single one just stopped working, at different times and always for no reason..no abuse, no lightning, nothing. I've seen more non-working Tandberg than any high end brand that I can think of. He still owns them, in hopes of someday deciding they are worth getting fixed.

Nak never had Dolby S or dbx, and never went to the later tape standards. WTF? I've read (both when it happened and here on AK) that Nak stated that they didn't NEED to change, as the changes were necessary for lesser manufacturers to achieve better sound. I'd love to hear a Teac V-8000. That would tell me a lot. Can you imagine if Nak had pushed the wider record path to the limit that they took the old standard to? Naks were already the most expensive decks inthe world, don't you think they could afford to license dolby S or dbx as well? I remember in the 80's thinking that if Nak wasn't making the effort, then tapes were truly dead.

THE best?? I can't say that, there are very few really THE bests that I can think of. Consistently one of the best? You bet.
 
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The only cassette decks that gave Nakamichi´s best units a serious run for their money were a few Tandbergs.


Just wait till you hear your fully restored 681ZX, Erik.:yes:

Mind you, towards the end, even Nakamichi produced some unexceptional decks.
 
I think that Tandberg is the only manufacturer that made decks that sounded better than the Best Naks.

I presently own a CR-7A, as well as several other lesser Naks. I have owned, but sold a Dragon, and a ZX-9. Prior to acquiring a Tandberg 3014A myself I thought that the hype out there about the best Tandbergs sounding better was all just hype. But, I discovered that I was wrong. I've simply never heard another machine which sounded so musical as my 3014A does.

My Revox B215s has the best-buit mechanism of any machine, but sonically it takes close third place berhind the 3014a and the CR-7A.

If you looks at measurements though, the best Naks and Tandbergs are simply unmatched (although the naks do measure a tad better). No other machines even come close if you look at their HF Frequency Response extension. Naks had better HF headroom without HX pro that most manufacturers TOTL decks had with it! And the very best Naks could go out to 24kHz, without using metal tape, and the waveforms at those frequencies were quite clean. But so can a 3014A.

But Naks are definitely more reliable than the Tandbergs. Your 681 is a truly superb unit. You may well be shocked at how good it sounds when you get it back. At some point measurements don't mean much however, and it all comes down to subjective listening. In this regard you will discover that your Nak truly excels. You probably won't beat it though, until and unless you get one of the best Tandbergs.
 
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I have had my 670ZX for less than a week now. After experimenting with it daily, I have to say it is far and away the best sounding and recording deck I have ever owned or even heard.
 
For me, these are the best sounding cassette machines!

1. Tandberg (the best in audio quality and good mechanically)
2. Middle of the line and upper Nakamichis
3. ReVox/ Studer (The best cassette transports, excellent sound but not up to #1 or #2.)
4. Upper end JVC 3 head machines.
5. Advent 201 (mechanically as reliable as a ReVox, good sonics. Has kept working for many owners when fancier machines needed repairs. Many of them function to this day. First made in 1971, ahead of it's time by years and USA built to high standards. The father of hi-fi cassette decks)
6. Tascam 122, 122 Mk II and III (Good sounding, broadcast reliable.)
 
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I've owned middle of the line NAKS for many years and have always been impressed by their quality.

NAK never used Dolby S because they were basically out of the cassette market by the time "S" became popular. "S" was marketed because of the failure of Dolby "C" with consumers because it is only works well within certain parameters and too many of the decks with the "C" circuit couldn't meet those parameters. For a manufacturer to get a license for the "S" circuits they had to agree to only put it into decks that had better control of these variables - tape alignment to standard; eq and bias to standard; repeatability from deck to deck; head saturation standards; head alignment and azimuth to standard. In other words, the deck must have better engineering & quality control than is required for inclusion of a "B" or "C" circuit. That's why you won't see an "S" circuit on a cheap deck. NAKS, even their cheapest models, already exceeded the quality requirements and their "B" and "C" circuits worked just fine.
 
Is this possible? Is the difference really THAT big???

YES! Good Naks are that much better! :yes: :music:

I'd dissent. Most of my experience with MOTL Naks has been anticipation was greater than result. Now just about any really TOTL tape deck can produce good results. I think if you get good results that you're happy with that Teac, then enjoy it. Naks are like Hollywood girlfriends .... way too high maintenance and costly for only incremental improvement. IMHO.
 
I feel Nak's are great, but.... some observations.
- There are more great decks: tandberg, Revox, the Teac Z-series, some Aiawa Excelia's, TOTL Sony's.....
- There come's a point when the cassettedeck isn't the limiting factor, but the cassette itself.

I've worked with some R2R's as well, and I have to say that something like a Revox PR-99 at 15 ips is just better than my own ZX-9. I admit: an unfair comparison, but there's always something better...
 
There certainly were a number of TOTL decks from other manufactueres that were in the same performance league as MOTL Naks (prior to the decline of Nakamichi in the 90s). But with the exception of Revox, and Tandberg nobody else consistently produced such excellent quality.

Where Naks were most exceptional was at the BOTL and at the TOTL. BOTL Naks could often compete with the performance of many other manufacturers TOTL machines. And TOTL Naks were rarely matched or exceeded by anybody other than TOTL Tandbergs (note: Revox was right up there too, but was not quite up to the same performance standard as the best Naks).

R2R is a different category of machine. And at 15 IPS, a good machine had darn well better outperform a cassette! But it is pretty amazing to me that the very best cassette decks could outperform all but the very best R2Rs at or below 7.5 IPS. Sorry, I love R2R, but even my B77 running at 7.5ips is outperformed in many respects by my CR7A, and my 3014A.
 
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I have a yamaha K1000 3 head deck

teac v900x

and am working on a nak bx-300....

I can tell you this, I had a bx-100, Lx-3 nak and the teac and yammy spank them both handily.

The bx-300 better be some kind of deck to knock off the teac
 
I have a yamaha K1000 3 head deck

teac v900x

and am working on a nak bx-300....

I can tell you this, I had a bx-100, Lx-3 nak and the teac and yammy spank them both handily.

The bx-300 better be some kind of deck to knock off the teac

I used to work warranty for the three mentioned manufacturers. IMO there's something wrong with the BX-300 if it didn't wipe the floor of the other decks you've mentioned.
 
I used to work warranty for the three mentioned manufacturers. IMO there's something wrong with the BX-300 if it didn't wipe the floor of the other decks you've mentioned.
I agree. The BX-300 is one of the true "sleeper" Naks. Those machines are exceptional performers.
 
The best cassette decks could outperform (or at least match) all but the very best R2Rs but only with the help of all kinds of gadgetry that didn't make it into R2R. My mid-range Sony TC-KE500S can match my Teac A-3440 but only because it has computer controlled bias and level adjustment, Dolby-B,C,S and HX-Pro. The Teac (not necessarily one of the very best either but I think generally well-regarded) is as good as the Sony with nothing but tape and heads. I have the dbx unit for it but haven't even tried it yet because frankly I hear no noise as it is (and I'm only running 7.5 ips).
 
Very true. I always wished that more cassette technology had made it onto R2R. HX-pro was employed on one of Studer's very best (and last) machines, and Tandberg added their DynEQ and actilinear technologies to thier final R2R models. But short of that, nobody else really did that kind of stuff.

Basically, after the late 70s, pretty-much everybody stopped attempting to make R2R any better because cassette were killing R2R in the marketplace. EE tape was the big exception (where they finally introduced Chrome tapes for R2R), but it simply did not live-up to its performance claimes, and frankly represented the last-gasp for consumer open-reel tape machines.
 
I used to work warranty for the three mentioned manufacturers. IMO there's something wrong with the BX-300 if it didn't wipe the floor of the other decks you've mentioned.

this is good news then...I'm hoping to finish it up tonight....it will be top dog on the main system then
 
Yes three head decks are the way to go, always..dual capstan, well that much better..just keep things clean.
 
I would mention Luxman K05 and Alpage AL90 as candidates too

Sorry, but in 1981 I listened to the BOTL Nak 480 two head deck and the TOTL Luxman three head deck and the comparison was a joke. The Nak 480 sounded better than ANY other cassette deck from the middle tier manufacturers (Pioneer, Kenwood, Technics, Yamaha...). Back then it cost me $640 Canadian dollars, but in comparison to everything else, it was a great value. And it still runs by the way. I just don't listen to it any more since I acquired a CR7A. I had a friend who had the expensive Pioneers of that era, and they sounded like junk compared to a Nak 480. I even had a Marantz 3 1/2 ips cassette deck that was garbage when compared to the 480.

I've been wondering if its worth the effort in getting my CR7A extensively modded (better power supply, new Black Gate caps, Gutwire power cord, etc.). Has anyone done this with their decks?
 
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