how can i get proper imaging based on room and speaker size?

[aidynphoenix]

searched around for threads and websites explaining arrangement and imaging.. but couldent find anything really detailed..
i just cant get good imaging in my room..
im not sure if its my speakers or the way they are sitting or angled.. or if they are too close or whatever..
i can however useing smaller speakers. but those just cant move the air like i need them to.
my speakers are 2ft 6" off the floor, on top of furnature.. (have dog that pees)
im willing to part with furnature, block windows, hang sheets, and completely rearange everything.
heres a simple layout of my room.. i did it with paint.. the room is 10' by 13' approx 8' tall

[aidynphoenix]

also to give more info.. heres some real photos..
yes i am aware my room is a disaster.. it looks like a tornado ran through here..

[Ohighway]

I don't know if you'll ever get good imaging sitting that close to the speakers. That could be part of the problem.

[aidynphoenix]

do you think it might possibly be better pulling a number like this???

[Ohighway]

It's possible. Easy enough to test that theory. Just roll your computer chair further back towards the middle of the room and listen. See if things improve. Also, those speakers look like they're pretty high up. (well the top ones do, I'm not sure which set you're using) Maybe try lowering them or figuring out some way of angling them downwards towards your listening position.

[aidynphoenix]

the top ones are fisher ds-810's i dont really use those as much as the bigger ones.. they are there because they match.
i'l try it out.. going to have to angle the speakers out more though..
i think i am going to do a complete rearangement.
i am trying to find a piece of graphing paper so i can cut out pieces shaped like my furnature and try it out on that.. sized in sq feet.. 1 foot per box..

i do however have some smaller speakers i am really fond of.. they are fisher 103's
they dont move as much air.. but they are cleaner sounding..
maybe i should use the big ones for the tv/ entertainment system..
and the smaller ones for my computer desk? the only downside is that i dont use the tv as much as my computer.. for games, movies and just plain out jammin..

it will be about a entire day of cleaning and moving stuff around..

(i found something to keep be busy)

[TejasRichard]

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?ar...ing=Room+Setup

There is a calculator at the bottom. Worked like freakin magic for me.

[aidynphoenix]

sweet what a great link..
but i noticed,,, all of these speakers are positioned far away from the walls. should i take that as a, its not best to put them in a corner?

[Tedrick]

Originally Posted by aidynphoenix

sweet what a great link..
but i noticed,,, all of these speakers are positioned far away from the walls. should i take that as a, its not best to put them in a corner?

Generally, yes. Most speakers are designed to be installed away from room boundaries (i.e. walls). Putting them near a wall will reinforce bass, but often at the expense of imaging and soundstage. Plus, the bass reinforcement can be too much, resulting in muddy, boomy, or one-note bass. Putting the speakers in a corner doubles the problem, because now they are near 2 room boundaries.

Speaker placement is almost always a compromise. They need to be far enough from the walls to get good imaging, yet close enough for decent bass performance. The only way to achieve the results you want is to experiment.

[whoaru99]

Yup, what Tedrick says, if you want better imaging move them away from the back and side walls.

I use the Cardas "formula" TejasRichard mentioned to (temporarily) place speakers when I get serious. In fact, I have very small marks, invisible to the untrained observer (), on the floor so I can put them in position quickly without remeasuring.

To me, it seems to make a big difference for the better compared to my normal setup, which has the speakers about the same distance apart but only ~10 inches from the back (or front, depending on how you look at it) wall.

[TejasRichard]

I recently tried moving my speakers into the position suggested in the infinity user's manual (ie 2-3' from the front wall, 2-3' from the side wall, 7-10' apart, and 10-12' from the listening position.) after a little tweaking, the left-to-right image was decent (though not as good), and the bass was a little better than the per-cardas position, but it had lost all depth. My speaks sit 8.16' from the front wall and 5.04' from the side walls...for me, I'd rather give up the floor space than the depth....but i'm pretty lucky to have a space that is all mine and outside of the wifey's sphere of influence.

[aidynphoenix]

thanks guys!
you explained exactially what i was looking for!

[dkelley]

will those speakers EVER image really well? probably not unfortunately, sorry.

you need narrow front panels and or well beveled edges around tweets/mids/cabinets for the best imaging. Great imaging also comes much more easily from great dispersion, which is easiest to get from using really small drivers through their frequency ranges. Narrow cabinets also image much better than wide cabinets typically. All of these things aren't rules, but they're pretty good examples of how it's typically done.

Make sure your speakers aren't angled TOO far inward. you want the right speaker hitting the right ear mostly and vice versa when you're sitting in a near field environment like that. if you cross them too much, imaging goes out the window. That might be too much imaging.

and as others have noted, imaging will be better, assuming you're in the sweet spot, if you sit further from them.

I though do also sit really close to my speakers in my recording studio, close to studio monitors, close to relatively big 3 way speakers (with unusually great dispersion/imaging even close up), and very very close to small mini monitors. I can get very good imaging from all of those setups if I work on placement and seating location.

But I get the BEST imaging in my living room wtih the same bigger speakers sitting 10 or so feet away in each triangle angle direction.

[dkelley]

Originally Posted by whoaru99

Yup, what Tedrick says, if you want better imaging move them away from the back and side walls.

I use the Cardas "formula" TejasRichard mentioned to (temporarily) place speakers when I get serious. In fact, I have very small marks, invisible to the untrained observer (), on the floor so I can put them in position quickly without remeasuring.

To me, it seems to make a big difference for the better compared to my normal setup, which has the speakers about the same distance apart but only ~10 inches from the back (or front, depending on how you look at it) wall.

another thing, if you CAN'T move them from back and side walls (same with me), then do what I did: put lots of acoustic paneling behind and beside them. improved imaging immensely, although in a different way that one gets from "living room speakers away from bare walls" type of imaging.

[djnagle]

My office looks like yours and I get great imaging. BUT, I don't have all the stuff on my desk that you do. I run Omaga Super 3R speakers pointed straight out on eighter side of my computer screen. When you angle speakers, as you have, and sitting so close, there is to much interference from eachother to give good imaging. They way you have your speakers now, they would most likely image well if you were sitting five feet further back. When you move your chair back does the image get better? For near field listening like that, you could use much smaller speakers.