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Anti-vibration obsession - why amps?

johnnm

johnnm

Audio Enthusiast
I understand why a turntable ought to be isolated from vibrations. I understand why CD players should be isolated from vibrations (although, to a lesser extent, since they have error correction that works pretty flippin' good), but why amps?

I see small anti-vibration "cones" or other objects which are supposed to be placed under components (included amps) in order to dampen these components. Also some amp stands boast of this feature.

Why would it matter if your amp is vibrating? There are no moving parts. Although I've yet to try it, I imagine I can't tell the difference between a stationary amp and one attached to a pogo stick.

What gives?
 
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I've also wondered if anyone has had discernable results from this type of tweak. Any experiences?


johnnm said:
Although I've yet to try it, I imagine I can't tell the difference between a stationary amp and one attached to a pogo stick.
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Well, I think you just volunteered for a tweak assignment. Let us know within the next week.
 
Vibrations can pollute the audio signal in a number of ways, so it's something we'd like to minimize everywhere, not just with amplifiers. This seems to be even more the case with tube audio than solid state, since tubes can be microphonic and highly sensitive to any noise/vibrations.

I've found that in a lot of cases, using various types of footers and anti-vibration tweaks seems to tighten up, or clean up the sound a little. Sometimes I can't hear any difference, but it's probably a good idea to make some sort of effort to reduce vibrations throughout your system.
 
Mr. Lin said:
Vibrations can pollute the audio signal in a number of ways, so it's something we'd like to minimize everywhere, not just with amplifiers. This seems to be even more the case with tube audio than solid state, since tubes can be microphonic and highly sensitive to any noise/vibrations.

I've found that in a lot of cases, using various types of footers and anti-vibration tweaks seems to tighten up, or clean up the sound a little. Sometimes I can't hear any difference, but it's probably a good idea to make some sort of effort to reduce vibrations throughout your system.
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Tubes are microphonic and sensitive to noise and vibration? All tubes or just some? I'm wondering why military agencies worldwide would use tubes in Jet aircraft, submarines, ICBM's, etc etc if they were susceptible to noise and vibration. If you could give some clarification I would appreciate it as I really don't understand. THANKS!
 
Tube King said:
Tubes are microphonic and sensitive to noise and vibration? All tubes or just some? I'm wondering why military agencies worldwide would use tubes in Jet aircraft, submarines, ICBM's, etc etc if they were susceptible to noise and vibration. If you could give some clarification I would appreciate it as I really don't understand. THANKS!
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I wasn't aware that "military agencies worldwide" were using tubes for hi-fi audio.

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Tube King said:
Tubes are microphonic and sensitive to noise and vibration? All tubes or just some? I'm wondering why military agencies worldwide would use tubes in Jet aircraft, submarines, ICBM's, etc etc if they were susceptible to noise and vibration.
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Mr. Lin said:
I wasn't aware that "military agencies worldwide" were using tubes for hi-fi audio.
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:D Military dudes ROCK! :guitar::guitar:

I know that tubes used to be used for military purposes quite a while ago because that's basically all they had. Sort of like a tubed car radio. All radios were tubed - transistors were either not invented yet or not widely available. I believe the Russians were using tubes in their airplanes while the US had moved on.

However in the event of a nuclear war, tubes would still function (the 'plane will still fly) while US airplanes would be grounded. I think we're probably talking about metallic tubes here.... although I could be wrong.

That's all I remember about that. This was many moons ago. :)

Tubes are microphonic and sensitive to noise and vibration. All tubes except perhaps the metal ones the military invented.

Why is this so? Who knows? I'm not related to Thomas Edison. :D

I do know that isolating my tubed preamp and amp greatly improves the sound!

If you have doubts, try a little experiment. Put something under your amp and see if you hear a difference. When I first played around with this, I used bubble wrap (I had a wood DIY stereo rack at the time) and I was shocked to hear a difference.

Please note that the 'difference' does not necessarily mean it's better! It could be worse! Or just "different" sounding.

Give it a shot and see what you hear or don't hear. :)

Let us know!
 
GaryP said:
:D Military dudes ROCK! :guitar::guitar:
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I can just picture a bunch of vintage tube gear stuffed inside a tank, as if it wouldn't be hot enough in there! :D

My grandfather, a WWII Navy veteran, once told me that our military still uses tubes in fighter/bomber planes because of what you mentioned about their immunity to electromagnetic impulses (from nuclear weapons). I don't know whether that's actually still true. I know we have a few ex-military here, maybe they could shed some light on it - Avionic?

As for the rest of what Gary described, the same experiment could be done by placing things on top of components. You don't necessarily have to spend a lot of money to achieve adequate vibration control IMO, though some of the things I've bought that are specifically for audio work quite well. With amps, speakers, source components - I like to have something underneath, and some sort of weight on top as well.
 
I believe most tubes used in aircraft and such were the metal tube variety and not the glass type. This type is quite a bit more durable than the glass envelope style.
 
There's a school of thought that says solid state electronics are susceptible to microphonics. These are the people who buy isolation stands for their amps.

Me, i don't have an opinion. I also don't own any gear that is 100% SS. It either has tubes (e.g. my integrated amp and phono stage) or mechanical processes going on (my TT and CDp).
 
Brett a said:
There's a school of thought that says solid state electronics are susceptible to microphonics. These are the people who buy isolation stands for their amps.

Me, i don't have an opinion. I also don't own any gear that is 100% SS. It either has tubes (e.g. my integrated amp and phono stage) or mechanical processes going on (my TT and CDp).
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Care to elaborate? How exactly would microphonics effect things?
 
Vibration and microphonics can find there way into all sorts of audio signals, some buy into and some dont............if you believe isolate and if you dont then well, you know the answer.
 
This has been something I have always was curious about and not sure how SS electronics can be effected.

I have test equipment that can measure down to 1uV (0.000001V theoretically, i have never done this myself) and the HP manual says nothing about damping vibrations. This multimeter can also be used in a four wire mode which negates the effects of the resistance of test leads. This would lead me to thing that it wouldn't matter in SS electronics.

Also understanding the physics of solid state electronics and how electrons and holes move in a substrate would also lead me to believe the same thing. And just to clarify SS electronics being BJT and FET transistors.
 
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johnnm said:
Care to elaborate? How exactly would microphonics effect things?
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I can't elaborate. I don't have the answer to your question. I can only say there are people around that do believe SS gear is subject to microphonics.
If you searched the interweb, I bet you'd quickly find articles and posts from people who believe it as to why they have the belief.
 
Yes, tubes are still used by the military because of EMP.. SS is not immune to EMP... Although, not as heavily as they were 20 years ago..
 
I could buy into tube gear being fairly succeptable to microphonics/vibration, but I'm fairly skeptical on SS electronics being affected in a meaningful way.

Would seem simple enough to test. Put the amp/preamp in another room with enough cable to get to the speaker. Have someone tap the gear in the other room (not upon your command so you don't know when it's being done) and see if you can hear something from the speakers.
 
barring the SS equipment actually rattling, the only decent argument i've ever heard is that capacitors are sensitive to vibration, being a layered object whose properties depend somewhat on the spacing between the layers. this would also apply to a lesser extent to tube equipment since they do still have capacitors, albeit fewer of them.
 
The biggest reason for isolating any electronics from vibration is not so much for the sound, but rather for the damage it does to the mechanical connections... whether soldered to a board, or wire wrapped posts.. vibrations on any mechanical connection isn't a good thing over time.
 
similost said:
Yes, tubes are still used by the military because of EMP.. SS is not immune to EMP... Although, not as heavily as they were 20 years ago..
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All Naval Radar uses tubes in the transmitters and receivers my son works on them.
 
similost said:
The biggest reason for isolating any electronics from vibration is not so much for the sound, but rather for the damage it does to the mechanical connections... whether soldered to a board, or wire wrapped posts.. vibrations on any mechanical connection isn't a good thing over time.
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I can buy that, but that's usually not the pitch behind isolation devices intended for audio.
 
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