Garrard 401 vs. Garrard Lab 80

A Garrard 401 versus a Garrard Lab 80? You might say there is no comparison, the 401 is superior. And in many ways it is. But it's not that superior to the Lab 80. Both were designed by Eric Marshall, The Lab 80 in '64 and the 401 in '65. They both have 6 pound platters that are rim driven by the same means, an idler wheel. The 401 has a shaded pole motor and an eddy brake that allows the user to adjust the speed, thus making the 401 a true transcription turntable. The 401 has three available speeds, 33 and 1/3, 45, and 78. The Lab 80 has a 4 pole synchronous motor that locks into the mains frequency, no speed adjustment and just two speeds: 33 and 1/3 and 45. If you read the reviews in "Gramophone" (the Lab 80 in '64 and the 401 in '65) you'll see that neither turntable exhibited any rumble and the wow and flutter was negligible, below specs. Now if you consider the going price for a 401, anywhere from $650.00 and up, to a Lab 80 which I paid $47.00 for you might start seeing that the Lab 80 and some similar older Garrards from the 50's and 60's might be worth some effort.

What made me buy this particular model after doing research on idler drive turntables was this: first, I really can't afford at this very moment a 301 or even a 401 that would require a custom plinth and the kind of tone arm/cart that I think would do it justice. And in that sentence alone I have already shown some bias in favor of the traditional audiophile set-up, which I am after. But, the fact that the lab 80 (at least the early Mark I's) are truly manual in the manual mode means that all of those gears and levers under the table don't operate at all when I'm spinning vinyl. There is no load on the platter or the motor other than the weight of the tone arm. It is a very nice MANUAL table. It's cons are that you pretty much have to use the tone arm that comes with the table, but after experimenting with tracking force it'll do anything you want. If you are on a budget, that tone arm with a good quality audiophile cartridge will surprise you! So yes there are limitations, but for $47.00 I find I can overlook those things for now.

I guess what I'm getting at is this: as the prices for idler drive turntables increase you might find a real gem for little money in some of Garrards lesser known, or much maligned "Automatic" turntables from the 50's and 60's. Some of us might get to a point where we are modifying these tables to suit our own purposes simply because they have terrific idler drives and heavy platters and over time have shown some dependability. I think the Garrard 4HF is another model that has some potential.

Any thoughts...

Very, very interesting post and food for some serious thought! :scratch2:

I've got an old Garrard SL-72b that I have been giving some thought to lately of cleaning up and getting back into service. Of course, my SL-72b is from the early '70's and not nearly the quality of the 301, 401, and, based upon your posting, the 80, but it was my first turntable and it always frustrated me that I never got the level of performance I wanted from it. So, I thought I would get it out and see what I could do with it now.

Now that I have read your posting, I am definitely going to keep an eye pealed on ebay for a Garrard Lab 80. The last thing in the world that I need is another turntable, but I really like the old Garrards and the going prices for the 301 and 401 are well above my budget, so a Lab 80 might be just the ticket for me.

BTW, have you ever tried a Grado cartridge your Lab 80. Intuitively it looks like it would be a real good match to the medium-mass arm, but that's without setting down and really working the numbers. A Denon 110 or 160 HOMC looks like it could be a choice as well.

Thank you again for posting you thoughts and observations. For those of us that can't afford the silk purse, it is nice to know what well-polished sow's ear will get us as close as possible! Thanks again!:thmbsp:

thunderroad: I have two Lab 80's. The first one I bought on Ebay for 47.00 from a dealer that I felt I could trust. The pictures of the TT were excellent and it looked to be in great shape so I bought it and it was a keeper.

The second one I bought for parts (that I really never needed) knowing it wasn't in as good of shape. The idler wheel on the second Lab 80 was slightly hardened, produced rumble and would need to be restored. Not a big deal if that's all it would take to get it running. Buy wisely and don't spend too much if you bid on line. My rule for these was 80.00 tops including shipping and I won both for less than that.

I just bought a Shure M97xE and installed it yesterday. I am pretty happy with the results. However, just yesterday a friend mentioned Grado as a good match as he was looking at the tone arm, so maybe it's an aesthetic thing or maybe I just missed the call on that one. It's also possible that I'm underestimating the tone arm; it might be able to handle a nicer cart down the road, but I haven't got a good feel for it yet.

For the past two months I have been monitoring sales of idler drive tt's on Ebay: Garrard, Thorens, Lenco, Empire, Rek-O-Kut, Elac, etc... Lately there has been some nice Turntables that sold for way less than I expected or didn't make their reserve. Just last week a beautiful 401 sold for just over $600.00. On the other hand, lesser tables (in my personal idler drive hierarchy) such as Rek-O-Kut are becoming hard to afford, sometimes selling for $500.00. Even the older Garrards like the 4HF are commanding higher prices.

I saw a new in box Lab80 on Audiogon, of all places. It had never been opened except for the pictures in the ad. Owner was asking $395 and it went for $350. I was soooo tempted. I think I would have purchased it if it was a MkII. That's my personal preference. I've mentioned in other posts that it is aesthically the most attractive of any turntable out there.

KevinL: I also find the Lab 80 very attractive. I also find the 401 more attractive than the 301. It has to be the designer, Eric Marshall and that 60's aesthetic that I remember from childhood.

Is the Mark II completely manual in manual mode. Does the tone arm return after play even if the automatic spindle is not being used?

I own a MKII and it was stored for a very long time in its box -- but it was used for only 4 months. It was like opening up a time capsule.
Yes---the MKII in manual mode does return the arm and shut off.

131east23 said:

I just bought a Shure M97xE and installed it yesterday. I am pretty happy with the results. However, just yesterday a friend mentioned Grado as a good match as he was looking at the tone arm, so maybe it's an aesthetic thing or maybe I just missed the call on that one. It's also possible that I'm underestimating the tone arm; it might be able to handle a nicer cart down the road, but I haven't got a good feel for it yet.

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I don't think you missed the call at all with the Shure M97xE. That is a very good cartridge that performs well above it's pricepoint. Be sure to take a look at some of the recent postings here about that cartridge! Some folks have fiddled around with its resistive or capacitive loading and reported excellent results. It's a sleeper that can really sound great!

As far as my suggestion about the Grado is concerned, I was basing that on the characterics of the arm on my Garrard and the Grado MT that I own. I have never used the two together, but that is probably the cartridge I'll mount on my Garrard for the first try. Reportedly the Denon 110 and 160 also do very well in a medium mass arm. So, there are a lot of good choices to try. But, IMHO, the Shure, Grado, and Denon are like apples, oranges and bananas; all very good at what they do, but completely different tastes from each other. So it all comes down to what you like!

Be sure to keep us posted on how you like the Garrard/Shure combination! Enjoy!

Actually, I am very impressed with the M97xE. I bought a sealed 32 year old album today. The inner sleeve had been folded such that a ridge of paper had exerted enough force on the vinyl that it had really nasty warp right on the edge of the LP. I know my V15 wouldn't have tracked it and the M97 couldn't without the brush. It was pretty amazing. I notched up the tracking force to 2 grams and lowered the brush and it was like the warp wasn't even there, whereas without the brush the stylus was being catapulted off the surface of the record. Pretty neat... Also, the Garrard seems to like being used. The motor starts right up now. When I got it it was a little slow but some oil and some use are making a big difference.

Hey East -You know ---a lot of people shy away from the Lab 80 --but properly tuned and working --They are a VERY fine table.
James

131east23 said:

Actually, I am very impressed with the M97xE. I bought a sealed 32 year old album today. The inner sleeve had been folded such that a ridge of paper had exerted enough force on the vinyl that it had really nasty warp right on the edge of the LP. I know my V15 wouldn't have tracked it and the M97 couldn't without the brush. It was pretty amazing. I notched up the tracking force to 2 grams and lowered the brush and it was like the warp wasn't even there, whereas without the brush the stylus was being catapulted off the surface of the record. Pretty neat... Also, the Garrard seems to like being used. The motor starts right up now. When I got it it was a little slow but some oil and some use are making a big difference.

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You know, I had the same sort of experience with my Shure V15 mk.V. When I first got the cartridge, I wasn't convinced that I needed to use the brush, so I experimented with not using it, trying different tracking weights, etc. My experience was exactly the same as yours; when I wasn't using the brush, the cartridge was very "springy" and reacted severely to any little warp in the record or vibration of the 'table and really jumped around. Using the cartridge with the brush down really smoothed out the tracking and settled things down. I haven't used it without the brush since!

BTW, what was the new album?

It was Kenny Loggins first album from 1977...

Grado was a popular cartridge for the Lab 80 as an upgrade for the run of the mill Pickerings that were usually offered. I think a V15 would not be a good match and from memory I think I tried a V-15 when I had my 80 and switched out. A really good match also were the ADC bricks but you do not hear anything about them today.

thunderroad said:

Very, very interesting post and food for some serious thought! :scratch2:

I've got an old Garrard SL-72b that I have been giving some thought to lately of cleaning up and getting back into service. Of course, my SL-72b is from the early '70's and not nearly the quality of the 301, 401, and, based upon your posting, the 80, but it was my first turntable and it always frustrated me that I never got the level of performance I wanted from it. So, I thought I would get it out and see what I could do with it now.

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Well, I did it!

This past Sunday I dug out my old Garrard SL-72b and spent the better part of the afternoon cleaning it up. Man, the old grease on that thing is like glue. But, with a can of electronics parts cleaner, some paper towels, cotton swabs, and plenty of elbow grease, I got it running again. After the clean-up I lubed it with some fresh lubricant and then turned my attention to the cartridge. The stylus on the old ADC cartridge looked suspect, so I sorted through my "delicate" parts stash and found an old cartridge that's in pretty good shape and mounted it up. After I had it mounted, aligned, and had set the tracking weight, I connected it up to a Marantz 2220b and a pair of Baby Advents and spun some records. It sounded real good too!

I had a recent SA find Jethro Tull album handy, so I gave that 1st spin, but then put on John Coogar Mellincamp's Scarecrow album and listened to that all the way through. That old table sounded real good, playing back through the Marantz and Advents. I'm very pleased!

I've still got to spend some more time on it, to get the changer portion working properly again, but it was nice to have it back in service and making music. My Garrard also had the optional wooden base, so I want to get that cleaned-up and oiled as well. The dust cover will also get a good cleaning. It isn't in the best of shape, but will do the job for now.

JHS2RT said:

I own a MKII and it was stored for a very long time in its box -- but it was used for only 4 months. It was like opening up a time capsule.
Yes---the MKII in manual mode does return the arm and shut off.

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Mine doesn't. I don't have the patience to fix it and I might ruin something else in the process.