Thorens TD165 suspension springs

p.robustini

p.robustini

Active Member
Hi evertbody.
I own a Thorens TD165 with original TP11 arm and Grado Prestige Gold cart.

I'm trying to tune the suspension: it had a bad bounce or almost no bounce at all.
I've followed the instructions of Tim Balley's famous article at the Analog Dept. but I still have a problem.

While setting the balancing of the floating sub-chassis I was able to achieve (almost) horizontality and centering but I don't seem to be able to achieve the correct height:
the sub-chassis stops bouncing after a few bounces (5-6) and I can hear its lower edges touching against the rubber on two pieces of wood which are supposed to avoid it to be leveled too low.
I can't set the chassis's level much higher because two of the springs (the one closest to the arm and that near the motor) are almost completely compressed (the adjuster nuts are almost at the end of their run).
I feel I'd need to level the chassis a bit higher but I can't. It's like the springs had lost their resistance and yield under the weight of the sub-chassis. Possible? Can replacements be found?
Or maybe could I have done something wrong during the adjustements?
All this happens at full load: inner platter, outer platter, mat, record and clamp. No damping there to add up weight.
Any advice?
 
Perhaps your clamp put's some extra weight. Or maybe your springs are ready to be recycled. I've used linn springs and believe that they are stiffer than thorens, maybe they're a good solution if your clamp is heavy.
 
dlamprou said:
Perhaps your clamp put's some extra weight. Or maybe your springs are ready to be recycled. I've used linn springs and believe that they are stiffer than thorens, maybe they're a good solution if your clamp is heavy.
Click to expand...

I'll try without clamp and then I'll think about Linn springs. A pity the clamp increases the sound quality dramatically...

But...
I've read on a forum somewhere that Linn springs are far stronger than the Thorens, too strong for setting them in a TD1xx, I don't remember exactly which model.
 
Last edited:
I've read many different opinions on the matter, many say they're to strong others that they are excellent.
In my opinion, they are stronger, but thorens never put dynamat under the subchasis or the subplatter and with all the modification's and the extra weight, they do just fine.
 
Step 1 would be take off the clamp. Set a Thorens up like it came out of the factory before any mods or accessories.

When you did the Tim Bailey, did you have the table flipped back and forth with each adjustment or adjust from underneath on a stand? If on a stand was the stand and therefore the plinth perfectly level? Did you add talcum powder to the rubber grommets and turn the springs till the tonearm centered? Tim Bailey focuses on repeating the turning of the springs and minor adjustments a few times until everything is right.

When first tuning suspension on my Thorens I did have one adjuster nut all the way up at one stage. It wasn't right so I went back to scratch and did it all again. About 10 adjustments later I was happy. Perhaps try it a few times more and definately on a level jig "stand".

If that fails you could try rotating the springs to different studs and grommets and if that fails there are spring sets to be had. There were parts listed here in Australia for a parted out TD-147 Jubilee (?) for over two months including a spring set that went unclaimed on a buy it now for about $30. I was just about to link it for you but the seller has pulled the unsold (70%) of the parts.

All that said. You say you have 5-6 bounces. Is it possible that your bounce test is a little heavy to cause things to bottom out? A light tap should be all that's required.

Good luck and let us how you go. Images help a lot if it continues to be an issue.
 
dlamprou said:
I've read many different opinions on the matter, many say they're to strong others that they are excellent.
In my opinion, they are stronger, but thorens never put dynamat under the subchasis or the subplatter and with all the modification's and the extra weight, they do just fine.
Click to expand...

That's also true, I had put some tac under the subplatter and I had to remove it, first thing...
Imagine if I had also damped the sub-chassis! :nono:

There are Linn spings in auction on eBay. How much did you pay yours?

...and thanks a lot!
 
Last edited:
Hey...Glad to have both you here on AK. If I may from all of us extend a warm welcome to both of you.

There are a lot of great Thorens people on AK and getting stronger. We would like to have your input. In Australia we currently have a TD-165 advertised for AU$600 (about USD$660). I envy your availability to them in Europe.
 
bhundu said:
Hey...Glad to have both you here on AK. If I may from all of us extend a warm welcome to both of you.
Click to expand...

Thank you a lot!

bhundu said:
There are a lot of great Thorens people on AK and getting stronger. We would like to have your input. In Australia we currently have a TD-165 advertised for AU$600 (about USD$660). I envy your availability to them in Europe.
Click to expand...

Wow! I could think to start a business with Australian Thorens lovers! :yes:
 
bhundu said:
Step 1 would be take off the clamp. Set a Thorens up like it came out of the factory before any mods or accessories.

When you did the Tim Bailey, did you have the table flipped back and forth with each adjustment or adjust from underneath on a stand? If on a stand was the stand and therefore the plinth perfectly level? Did you add talcum powder to the rubber grommets and turn the springs till the tonearm centered? Tim Bailey focuses on repeating the turning of the springs and minor adjustments a few times until everything is right.

When first tuning suspension on my Thorens I did have one adjuster nut all the way up at one stage. It wasn't right so I went back to scratch and did it all again. About 10 adjustments later I was happy. Perhaps try it a few times more and definately on a level jig "stand".

If that fails you could try rotating the springs to different studs and grommets and if that fails there are spring sets to be had. There were parts listed here in Australia for a parted out TD-147 Jubilee (?) for over two months including a spring set that went unclaimed on a buy it now for about $30. I was just about to link it for you but the seller has pulled the unsold (70%) of the parts.

All that said. You say you have 5-6 bounces. Is it possible that your bounce test is a little heavy to cause things to bottom out? A light tap should be all that's required.

Good luck and let us how you go. Images help a lot if it continues to be an issue.
Click to expand...

Sage advice :thmbsp: a level stand is an absolute must, without one you are just chasing your tail.
 
bhundu said:
Step 1 would be take off the clamp. Set a Thorens up like it came out of the factory before any mods or accessories.

When you did the Tim Bailey, did you have the table flipped back and forth with each adjustment or adjust from underneath on a stand? If on a stand was the stand and therefore the plinth perfectly level? Did you add talcum powder to the rubber grommets and turn the springs till the tonearm centered? Tim Bailey focuses on repeating the turning of the springs and minor adjustments a few times until everything is right.
Click to expand...

I put my Thorens on a couple of piles of wooden tablets, adjusting with some coins to obtain horizontality.
So I can adjust from underneath (and I'm a bit scared by the thought of turning the Thorens upside down to remount the bottom cover :no:).
yes, I used talcum powder everywhere and the tonearm is centered. Everithing is leveled and all stand on concrete.
I'll try to repeat the tasks...

bhundu said:
When first tuning suspension on my Thorens I did have one adjuster nut all the way up at one stage. It wasn't right so I went back to scratch and did it all again. About 10 adjustments later I was happy. Perhaps try it a few times more and definately on a level jig "stand".

If that fails you could try rotating the springs to different studs and grommets and if that fails there are spring sets to be had. There were parts listed here in Australia for a parted out TD-147 Jubilee (?) for over two months including a spring set that went unclaimed on a buy it now for about $30. I was just about to link it for you but the seller has pulled the unsold (70%) of the parts.

All that said. You say you have 5-6 bounces. Is it possible that your bounce test is a little heavy to cause things to bottom out? A light tap should be all that's required.

Good luck and let us how you go. Images help a lot if it continues to be an issue.
Click to expand...

It is also possible that I use too much force to test the bounce, I had no idea of it before coming across Tim's article. I played the TD165 happily in my ignorance. Once I took it to a Thorens expert in Rome because the belt (probably the original one!!!) no longer stayed on the motor and I feared there where more problems.
He only gave me a new belt for a few euros (not original), added missing oil, and sold me a new mat plus a clamp. With the clamp the sound quality increased so much that I searched the internet for more tuning. And here I am...

I'll try to adjust without the clamp and from scratch, and see what happens. Linn replacements go around 20 euros on eBay.

Thanks a lot for your precious feedback!
I'm not free in the weekend so you'll have to wait a little for some news from me!
 
The tension of each spring affects the others. Too much tension on one spring can push that side up and cause the others to sag. Several tries may be necessary. When I adjust Thorens tables I do not look at how many times it bounces. It doesn't bounce when you play it, and it's not a car, you are not checking the shocks. I adjust them so the platter is level, with about 1/8" play to the top stop. In other words, you should be able to lift the suspension up about 1/8". Adjust with your clamp on it.
 
I hope the "Thorens Expert" gave you back the original mat.

Original belts are recommended to ride in the middle of the fat 33.3 section of the pulley to maintain a constant speed. Story has it that the generics are slightly wider/narrower/shorter /longer and will tend not to centre itself on the wide section of the pulley. Genuine replacement belts have "Thorens" etc printed in white on the belt.

I think with how simple these tables are, and the information available here and on the net, you should never have to take your turntable to another for servicing ever again.

Although we can't be here 24/7, you will be suprised with responses over a 24 hr period.
 
dr*audio said:
The tension of each spring affects the others. Too much tension on one spring can push that side up and cause the others to sag. Several tries may be necessary. When I adjust Thorens tables I do not look at how many times it bounces. It doesn't bounce when you play it, and it's not a car, you are not checking the shocks. I adjust them so the platter is level, with about 1/8" play to the top stop. In other words, you should be able to lift the suspension up about 1/8". Adjust with your clamp on it.
Click to expand...

I agree that too much can be relied on the vertical bounce. Some of those you.tboob videos on TD-160 bounce, look like they have been sprung with lighter springs to make them bounce for ever.
 
bhundu said:
I hope the "Thorens Expert" gave you back the original mat.

Original belts are recommended to ride in the middle of the fat 33.3 section of the pulley to maintain a constant speed. Story has it that the generics are slightly wider/narrower/shorter /longer and will tend not to centre itself on the wide section of the pulley. Genuine replacement belts have "Thorens" etc printed in white on the belt.

I think with how simple these tables are, and the information available here and on the net, you should never have to take your turntable to another for servicing ever again.

Although we can't be here 24/7, you will be suprised with responses over a 24 hr period.
Click to expand...

Why do you hope I still have the original mat?
I still have it, do you think I should use it instead of the new one?
They say the mat is the first thing to get rid of ...
However the guy claimed that the only two things to do to make that turntable sound better are using a clamp and get rid of the mat.
All the rest is just a waste of time and money, on a €100 turntable...
...even buying an original belt would be too much...
 
bhundu said:
I hope the "Thorens Expert" gave you back the original mat.

Original belts are recommended to ride in the middle of the fat 33.3 section of the pulley to maintain a constant speed. Story has it that the generics are slightly wider/narrower/shorter /longer and will tend not to centre itself on the wide section of the pulley. Genuine replacement belts have "Thorens" etc printed in white on the belt.
Click to expand...

Why would you want the original mat? It has 2 ridges on it that support the record, when what you want it a flat mat that will absorb vibrations in the record, and you can use a clamp or weight with it.

I have found a seller that has replacement belts that are pretty good. A bit smaller diameter but not enough to cause much offset, and the belt rides in the middle of the pulley as it should. It's cheaper than the Thorens belts. Still, you can get an original for $25, and if you're not on a budget, that's what you should get. Me, I have two kids to put through college, so I bought the cheapie.
 
Hey...Glad to have both you here on AK. If I may from all of us extend a warm welcome to both of you.
Click to expand...


Thanks for your warm welcome.
As for the mat, I'm using a cork mat from project audio with fine results. I have the original and didn't notice any big difference between them. I do prefer the cork aesthetically and thats the real reason for choosing it over the original.
 
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