Audiokarma.org
Audiokarma Featured Sponsor

Go Back   AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums > DIY


We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 03-20-2010, 05:19 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
The Franken-Can: R2D2 goes back to the future

now that a few helpful members in the ewave thread have provided me with "proof of concept" of an idea i had and the donor has been gutted, it's time for my first build thread... hopefully, it will meet a happy and reasonably prompt conclusion...

disclaimer: i know nothing about building speakers. i understand the concept of how they work, and what the "basic" specs mean. but to me, a crossover is something i adjust. i have no clue how they actually work. so, no words are too small...

i was directed to the ewave thread by a poster at avs when i posted a question about making a speaker for a jukebox that i'm turning into an ipod dock... they provided me with an nice easy solution, and are thinking about potential other ones... not only that, they also provided a few other ideas for potential "add ons" to the jukebox... all of this begat the "franken-can"...

how it began:

this started by me acquiring a seeburg 148 (aka trashcan) jukebox with the intention of turning it into an ipod dock... it can generously be described as "restorable, with most pieces there"...



since i don't plan on making the actual jukebox mechanism work (other than the buttons), i don't have to do the difficult part of the restore... i just need to work on the actual cabinet to "restore" it... clean it, repaint it, etc. the only "mechanical" part i have to make work from the donor are the button assemblies, and that should just be a matter of taking them apart and cleaning them...

i realized that i would need a speaker and figured i could do a lot better than re-coning what was in there... got directed to the ewave thread... got speaker idea... got other ideas for "enhancements" to the can...

Last edited by ccotenj; 03-20-2010 at 09:11 PM. Reason: title change
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 03-20-2010, 05:40 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
so that brings me to the present...

here's where i want to go...

- make the juke look good... i can handle that part on my own... all that takes is elbow grease and money... all of the parts needed (plastics, mirrors, etc.) are available... the chromed stuff can be re-chromed... that part should be reasonably "easy"...

- make the juke sound good... here's where i throw myself upon the mercy of the ak members... a member suggested the "standard" ewave solution, and that looks like it might be the easiest, most straightforward way to go... zilch also is thinking about a couple other options that i'm sure will be intriguing...

- it will function as an ipod dock, streaming point and possibly a few other things...

- since i will have multiple sources and require amplification and volume control, it would be nice if i could end up using an integrated amp that i already have (pioneer a35r) to power the speaker... that way the only circuit i'd have to build (other than the crossover) would be a really easy one to sum the stereo input to mono...

the above is what i will call "franken-can version 1" (or fcv1 for short)...

the guys in the ewave thread proposed options like adding a touch-screen and a few other nifty ideas... so i'm hoping for some participation from others... i am open to any and all ideas... not just for the speaker, but for the juke itself...

for example, i'm going to need a circuit that will control the lights and "animation" (animation in 1948 wasn't what we consider animation today )... i figure there has to be some type of ic based circuit that will turn lights off and on/blink them/etc... but (again), i have no idea of where to start, other than googling (which has at least taught me that these ic's actually exist)... the problem with googling is that i come across SO much information, i get lost in it all...
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 03-20-2010, 05:49 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
Talking now for some pictures

stage 1 of the project was to gut the donor... knowing that parts of it hadn't been apart for over 60 years, i liberally applied liquid wrench to all visible screws... as i would come to find out, there were some that were invisible at first because they were covered with so much rust... i would also come to find out that some of them just wouldn't come out, and extreme measures were required (drilling)...

the whole thing has to come apart, so might as well start with the door...



door after woofer and inside skin has been removed...



the inside... all of this stuff has gotta come out....



record changing mechanism unit removed...



the unit itself... a pretty amazing bit of engineering this kit is... glad i don't have to rebuild it though...

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 03-20-2010, 05:56 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
continued...

shelf removed... now we can get at the amplifier and control unit...



coin box removed...



amplifier and control unit removed... empty at last...



top with dome removed...



those lightbulbs they used in these old machines ran HOT... literally blackened the area around their mounting points...

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 03-20-2010, 06:04 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
Phase 1 complete

so "phase 1" of the project, which was:

a) get "proof of concept" that a speaker design was possible. not only did i get proof of concept, but a complete solution was given to me, and other ideas might potentially percolate...

and

b) gut the donor...

is complete and successful... many more pictures of the disassembly and the parts as they came out can be found at this link

on to phase 2...

phase 2 will be...

a) strip the "can", fix any obvious bends/gouges and prime it so it's prepped for painting...

b) strip the grill... this is completely covered with rust, so it will likely occupy me for awhile...

c) begin to finalize a speaker selection...

d) conceptualize a solution to making the lights and animation work...

Last edited by ccotenj; 03-20-2010 at 06:08 PM. Reason: added link to picture gallery
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 03-20-2010, 06:05 PM
shelly_d's Avatar
shelly_d shelly_d is offline
Not An Audiophool
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Alameda CA
Posts: 4,518
Here is a thought for you to consider. You could put 2 small full range speakers in it, one for each channel of a stereo amp and a dual voice coil subwoofer, one coil wired to each channel. No electronics needed to combine channels and yet keep the 2 channels separate at the source. A nice, small "full range" like this


http://www.madisound.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=276

isn't a budget buster and could make the project easier:

Just a suggestion.
__________________
Real planes have propellers

Oxygen free copper suffocates the sound!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-20-2010, 06:10 PM
Urchinn's Avatar
Urchinn Urchinn is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,593
Man, I wish you luck with everything. I love those jukeboxes! Can't wait to hear which discs you load it up with.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-20-2010, 06:11 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
thanks shelly...

like i said, i'm open to any and all ideas... but like i also said, i've got no clue now to do "stuff", so i'll ask...

how would i implement something like in your post? i.e. cabinet, crossover, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-20-2010, 07:26 PM
mashaffer's Avatar
mashaffer mashaffer is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Central Indiana
Posts: 3,192
Is that original speaker toast? The iron on the amp usable? If they have any life in them you may be able to finance your project in part by selling parts.

mike
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-20-2010, 07:40 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
@urchinn... thanks! it's going to be fun...

@mashaffer... original speaker needs to be re-coned, at the very least...

not sure on the amp condition either... i have a couple others of unknown source as well... haven't disassembled any of the 3 to see what's going on in there yet...

i didn't dare put electricity to the thing in the condition it was in... i was visualizing tubes exploding and flames shooting out...

i was kinda thinking along those lines as well, re: selling stuff to help finance... someone (or ones) will want at least some of the stuff... and whatever doesn't go after a period of time can i'll drag to the metal recycler and take what i can get...

@all... can someone point me to a link that would describe a speaker set up the way shelly noted (2 full range and a subwoofer)?
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 03-20-2010, 08:14 PM
Stuart Pedaso's Avatar
Stuart Pedaso Stuart Pedaso is offline
In too deep
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Solano County
Posts: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post
how would i implement something like in your post? i.e. cabinet, crossover, etc.
Implementing Shelly_d's idea would probably be the quickest and easiest approach:

Divide the space behind the door into separate compartments. Mount the subwoofer into one at the bottom and wide range drivers into one (or two, if you want separate chambers) above.

Then wire the drivers from your amplifier through a subwoofer crossover:


(This example found here).

Build your own, or ready-made sub crossovers are available from many sources. Just run wire from your amplifier's speaker terminals to the crossover "input" terminals, then from the satellite "output" terminals to your wide range drivers. Wires that are usually already attached connect to your dual voice coil subwoofer.

Speaker selection is a matter of measuring the enclosure volume and examining prospective driver Thiele/Small parameters for ones that work in the available space. Also match up sensitivity for even response between sub and upper range drivers. You can expect lots of help here from AK members.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg xover-frt.jpg (10.4 KB, 336 views)
File Type: jpg xover-bck.jpg (21.7 KB, 338 views)
__________________
Because it's my birthday, and I wants it!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 03-20-2010, 08:52 PM
westend's Avatar
westend westend is offline
Audiopile
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shorewood MN
Posts: 9,464
I like the dual single-driver approach but would use something shielded like these 127e's or these FR125's. Two enclosures, yes, and they can be small. Mounting the boxes and the subwoofer should be an easy task. An alternative could be two waveguides and compression drivers with woofers.

If the OP can find a preamp or integrated amp with remote, the deal is almost done, the most difficult, IMO, part remaining, integrating a display of system and track selections. I would almost forgo this part (mainly because I know how my OCD would drive this part of the project into the realm of Hoover Dam scale). It can certainly be done and the processing hardware is out there. There will be power supply considerations and, if incorporating the push buttons, wiring to fathom.

I was looking at the amp that ws in the jukebox and I would suggest that the OP not disassemble any of it before he can get an approximation of value and condition. This would also hold true for the speaker. Some of these parts can hold exceptional value to a collector/restorer.
Good luck with your jukebox project and keep up the good work with the pics. This is a relly cool project.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 03-20-2010, 09:21 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Pedaso View Post
Implementing Shelly_d's idea would probably be the quickest and easiest approach:

Divide the space behind the door into separate compartments. Mount the subwoofer into one at the bottom and wide range drivers into one (or two, if you want separate chambers) above.

Build your own, or ready-made sub crossovers are available from many sources. Just run wire from your amplifier's speaker terminals to the crossover "input" terminals, then from the satellite "output" terminals to your wide range drivers. Wires that are usually already attached connect to your dual voice coil subwoofer.

Speaker selection is a matter of measuring the enclosure volume and examining prospective driver Thiele/Small parameters for ones that work in the available space. Also match up sensitivity for even response between sub and upper range drivers. You can expect lots of help here from AK members.
ok, mount speakers in box, check...

wire amplifier output to sub crossover, check...

speaker selection... theile/small parameters? no check... so i'm definitely expecting lots of help here...

if it helps with speaker selection... this will be on my first floor, which is basically a 17X40 open space...

btw, two things i should have mentioned upfront...

- my woodworking skills are minimal (at best) and my woodworking tools are even more minimal... so anything more than a simple box, i'd probably have to get made for me... assuming i can find someone nearby to do it, that's not a problem...

- i have a reasonably decent sized budget for this particular project...

Last edited by ccotenj; 03-20-2010 at 09:30 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 03-20-2010, 09:33 PM
Tripqzon's Avatar
Tripqzon Tripqzon is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Maine
Posts: 3,256
I will be watching this thread with great interest.

You've got a lot of work ahead of you but the rewards should be well worth it.
__________________
Carver C-1, Carver M1.5t, Carver C-9, Carver TX1-11, Pioneer DV-47A, Pioneer PD-M90X, Pioneer F-91, Pioneer CT-F950, Pioneer HPM-100, Nakamichi CR-2A
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 03-20-2010, 09:54 PM
ccotenj ccotenj is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by westend View Post
I like the dual single-driver approach but would use something shielded like these 127e's or these FR125's. Two enclosures, yes, and they can be small. Mounting the boxes and the subwoofer should be an easy task. An alternative could be two waveguides and compression drivers with woofers.

If the OP can find a preamp or integrated amp with remote, the deal is almost done, the most difficult, IMO, part remaining, integrating a display of system and track selections. I would almost forgo this part (mainly because I know how my OCD would drive this part of the project into the realm of Hoover Dam scale). It can certainly be done and the processing hardware is out there. There will be power supply considerations and, if incorporating the push buttons, wiring to fathom.

I was looking at the amp that ws in the jukebox and I would suggest that the OP not disassemble any of it before he can get an approximation of value and condition. This would also hold true for the speaker. Some of these parts can hold exceptional value to a collector/restorer.
Good luck with your jukebox project and keep up the good work with the pics. This is a relly cool project.
1) ok, cool, i won't take them apart... i wasn't looking forward to that anyway... i've removed enough rusted in screws in the last couple days to last me awhile...

2) i have an integrated amp that i would actually like to use... it's a pioneer a35r... if i can use an integrated amp with this, it eliminates a LOT of work...

3) as far as selection/display goes...

to use the buttons: i should be able to "black box" it to have the buttons control a playlist with up to 20 selections... the actual wiring and signaling of the buttons isn't that "difficult"... cleaning the button assembly, otoh, is going to be a "fun" task...

- however, here's what i think might be a "winner", at least for fcv1, and it still allows for incorporation of the buttons as part of the control mechanism...

there are 4 "banks" of buttons, with 2 banks on each side of the coin slot, and 5 buttons in each bank...

i could "steal" the area that one bank of buttons takes up and mount an itouch in there... 2nd gen ones (which is all i would need for this) are pretty cheap on craigslist... it actually would fit almost perfectly...

i have an apple tv sitting around doing nothing... i can put that in the juke and give it access to my main itunes library (which is shared on a wireless network)... the apple tv would feed the integrated amp..

i could then use the apple "remote" app on the itouch to control the appletv... this would then give me access to my entire itunes library directly from the panel of the juke...

this approach also has the advantage of being able to control the juke from any device running the "remote" app... so i would have built in remote control for it...

i could then use the remaining buttons for "other" things, like on/off switch, control of the lcd lights, etc.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:57 PM.



Friends of Audiokarma
We appreciate your help in keeping this site going.
Stereo Repair World
Herbies Audio Lab
Vintage Home Audio
Amps and Sound
Pro DJ Headphones - click here
Organ Donor Parts
Wargos Electronics
Parts Connexion
Sonneteer
Take Five Audio
Sound Stage Direct
Audio Salon
AudioClassics
Audience AV
AV Solutions
Simply Speakers
Tone Arm Audio
BD Enterprise
Musical Paradise
Howard Products
Classic Sound Repair
FM DX Antenna
McIntosh Cabinets
Siliconray
BOI Audio Works
Vinyl Magic Record Cleaner
Amplifiedparts
Grant Fidelity
RSL Speakers
Yesterday's Audio
Urban Antigue Radio
DeWick Repairs
Many Moons Audio
Vintage Electronics Repair
The Tube Store
Politicalchat.org
Audio Doctor
Antique Radio Classifieds
MCM Electronics
Videokarma.org
   
   
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ęCopyright 2002-2014 AudioKarma.org, All rights reserved.