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Need Help with mat and clamp for DIY RCM

sanlanman

sanlanman

Well-Known Member
Here is a picture of my completed do it yourself record cleaning machine. The main electro-mechanical parts are: a platter mat and spindle from an old Fisher belt drive turntable, and a motor and gears from a mini table top ice cream maker.

P6070188.jpg


The platter turns with plenty of torque, but when I use my vacuum wands for pickup of the cleaning solution or rinse water, the album sticks to the wand. Sometimes the album and platter mat both stop and slide on the moving platter and sometimes the album only stops and slides on the mat due to the wand suction. I have drilled relief holes in the wands to lessen suction. I am looking to improve the mat contact and the downforce on the record by switching from a weight to a real clamp. The wands are the ones made from converted crevice vacuum tools.

So I have 2 questions:

1) What is a cost effective substitute for the OEM Fisher mat that is semi tacky or has more grip on the album and platter, without adversly affecting the album? I am considering ordering the thinnest Herbies TT mat, any other more cost effective options?

2) Who make the least expensive good quality spindle clamp, with enough force to hold the album tightly to the mat?

All advice is greatly appreciated
 
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You know, I've ordered Herbie's Way Excellent Mat II and speaking with someone at their company, heard that with their mat, I really don't need a spindle clamp.

I suppose I'm hijacking your thread but maybe you can also pick something up from this post.

One thing that comes to mind is that platter vibration probably reverberates though the spindle and if you clamp the spindle to your wax, regardless of your mat, seems like you're channeling vibes back to your disc.
 
omg - I feel like a noob... now I understand what your post is about - sorry for incorrectly posting my note in yore thread! :(
 
Flazer, no problem, somewhere I once saw a thread on a relatively inexpensive true record clapm, (not a weight, a real clamp, and not that plastic friction puck) I just can't find that thread with the search function.
 
For clamps go to eBay... tons of them listed http://electronics.shop.ebay.com/Ho..._sticky=1&_stpos=&_trksid=p3286.c0.m283&gbr=1.

Get a decent one like the Mitchell (http://cgi.ebay.com/MICHELL-RECORD-..._HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item335d067adf) and then you have it for use on your TT as well.

For mats I use the anti slip stuff for drawers (http://www.amazon.com/Type-AC30272-60-Custom-Trim-Non-Slip/dp/B001PRPBC4) comes in a roll 6-10 feet long and you can cut to any size TT platter. Its amazing stuff. I just cut a bit thats around 8" across, doesn't even need to be round and it works perfectly.
 
Hockey puck - $5 - good enough for my DIY RCM - the record doesn't stop when I have the shop vac hooked up to it.

I buy real purty clamps/weights for my turntables.
 
I use the Mitchell on mine , works great , plus I use it on my tables when not cleaning on the DIY unit .Been over a year and no complaints. I use the crevice tool's also and it doesn't stick , but I spin by hand using the clamp's knurled knob .
 
I like the looks of that. Nice job. Can you post some pics of the underside also? Do you have any problems with water running off of the plinth?

Are those just painted PVC legs with caps?

Very cool!!! I plan on doing one of these at some point, just trying to get edumacated!
 
Hello,
I might be able to make some suggestions-tips.

About a Mat. I have no idea where you live, but often DJ Shops, and possibly even a Guitar Center carry generic Neoprene Rubber mats that could be used.

The idea, is to use something that will work, be smooth, easy to clean, and of course will handle dealing with water, chemicals, and be gentle to the record's surface. And it probably should be glued to the Platter with something like a contact cement. Other options for Neoprene Rubber Sheeting, would be somewhere like McMaster-Carr, they have basically any thickness, type, and size. They will sell a 12"x12" sheet if that's all you want. I can't see using something as expensive as a Herbies Mat. It may be as well a bit too porous a material. Sort of like a Shelf Liner material available at places like wally world/home depot.

As for a clamp, the VPI RCM's simply used a 1/4"-20 threaded Spindle, on the 16.5 RCM, it is a cheap, simple threaded Knurled Nylon Knob about 7/8" diameter. And for $2K (Typhoon TOTL) I believe they throw in their record clamp.

What are you using for a vacuum source? Hopefully not a 10gal shop vac, even a 5gal is probably way too powerful. Usually the el cheapo 1hp chinese jobs are more than enough. It would've been perhaps better to vent the vacuum hose further down the line, rather than drilling holes into the Vacuum Wand itself.

Another issue, possibly causing your records to lock to the wand, is that you have the slot of the wand placed exactly perpendicular to the record's surface.

VPI's Vacuum Wands are in fact slightly tilted a degree, or two towards the oncoming direction of rotation of the platter. This permits better volume of fluid pickup, without undue vacuum pressures-friction being placed between vacuum wand, and record's surface.

This will of course place slightly faster wear on one of the velvet protective strips. Probably if the VPI wand's slot was exactly perpendicular, it would lock-seize the record also. Mark
 
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You can get Foamies at crafts stores for about $1 each. They're large enough to cut a 12" circle from. They're a couple of mm's thick. And they make nice platter mats as well.
I also use planter pot liners that are made of cork with a pvc liner bonded to them. They're 12" circles, and a couple of bucks apiece, depending on where you get them. I have actually started using the cork side down on my cleaning platters with the PVC side up. I then put a Foamie mat over the PVC. A bit of water on the back of the foamie holds it firmly in place on the PVC without a need for glue.
 
I just use an old cheap Garrard TT to spin the record on while cleaning. I got to where I don't plug it in, I just turn the record by hand with my fingers on the label, one hand turning the record, the other hand holding the "wand" that sucks off all the fluid and dirt.

It works for me, but yours looks much nicer...
 
I see no means of any permanently mounted Vacuum Wand on this machine, so should I assume you are hand holding the Vacuum Wand?

If so, this is going to cause a lot of variance on how efficiently the Wand will pick up fluids, and there will be a variance of downward pressure on the record as well.

We've seen some pretty nice DIY machines here in the past. One I remember, had a Vacuum Tower Assembly made from white PVC Water Line Tubing.

Others I've seen, have broke down, went the perhaps sightly easier route, and bought the entire Vacuum Wand Tower Assembly, and Base from VPI. This would run you about $70, or so dollars to buy. Mark
 
Guys, I regret that I have not gotten back to this thread before now. I ended up buying the Michell clamp and it helped. As for the mat, I sort of got lucky, I went to a local rubber and gasket supply house. (Action Rubber and Gasket), and a sales guy let me look and feel the various rubber/ neoprene materials they had in stock for fabricating. I found one that had a good "grippy" feel to it. They used some of that material to fabricate a custom turntable mat for me on their water jet cutting table, and it was not very expense. But, I was lucky enough to find a big enough piece of that material in their scrap bin, so material was free.

The vacuum wands are hand held and the vertical metal post in the picture is there to lay the wand against while the platter is turning. I am using the small portable SHOP VAC that I bought from Lowes. Regularly $39.95 but was on sale for $29.95.

My machine worked fine until recently, but it has begun to bind up occasionally. I am going to have to do some troubleshooting and realignment of the motor and gears.

FYI, I scrub clean with 3 different MO-FI brushes, each marked, ENZYME, WASH, or RINSE. I have a black vacuum wand for enzyme and wash vacuum cycles and a white vacuum wand for rinse only vacuum cycle. The wands are covered with the MO FI replacement pads cut in two, with a strip placed on each side of the slot.

Thank you all for your thoughtful responses.

(Actually, I wish some enterprising low cost manufacturer would come up with an affordable RCM that would clean and vacuum both sides of an LP held vertically. Think Spin Clean device , but motorized and with double vacuum wands, that hook to an outboard portable vacuum)
 
Nice looking RCM.

Could please post some photos?
I'm trying to find a way to couple the motor with the spindle.
Any thoughts?
 
how exposed is your spindle?
I used an old technics platter and spindle, and bought a thrust bearing to create a new rotational load bearing. The new bearing was fitted directly below the platter, exposing the end of the spindle. I was then able to us a ferrule connector, a slip connector that is used to attach motors to driven items; it was a ferrule/collar that had two set screws on either end of the ferrule that gripped the shafts.

In this picture, you can see the two screw ferrule between the motor and platter spindle. One screw grasps the motor shaft (lower screw), and the other grasps the spindle (upper):
IMG_4105JPG.jpg
 
Thanks for the info.
I have two candidates for my plater. One is an old fisher (very flimsy thing) and a plastic thorens subplater. The thorens is an excellent choice because it has a long spindle.
Anyway, I'm in the designing phase for the moment.
 
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