Audiokarma.org
Audiokarma Featured Sponsor

Go Back   AudioKarma.org Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums > Speakers


We appreciate your help

in keeping this site going.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-25-2010, 12:16 PM
Moon_Man's Avatar
Moon_Man Moon_Man is offline
Dreps Crone Maze
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central Upstate NY
Posts: 778
AR vs. Advent

I'm sure this has been bantered around in here before, but here I go anyway - I'd like peoples opinions.

I currently own a very nice pair of AR 2ax's that sound great (I am a fan of the vintage east coast sound). I also have an opportunity to pick up a pair of original Advent Loudspeakers which look good save for some funky brown grill cloth (that I would replace).

My question is this - are these so similar so as to be redundant? I know both of these are Henry Kloss creations. I will probably get the Advents only because "they're there", but I'd like some opines. Thanks.
__________________
Fledgling DCM Collector: CX-17's, TimeWindow 1's (Round DCM drivers), TimeWindow 1's (Octogon Phillips drivers), TimeFrame 2000's, and always on the prowl.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-25-2010, 12:35 PM
tmad40blue's Avatar
tmad40blue tmad40blue is offline
"I can hear forever!"
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 2,289
The AR-2ax is not a Henry Kloss design - he left AR way before that and had already started KLH.

I say get them! The more experience you have with different vintage speakers, the better. I've got AR-3a, AR-4x, AR-2, etc., and would LOVE to hear some Advents myself.
__________________


Thanks for the knowledge and guidance, Zilch!
--------------------------------------------------------
My systems
Home theater build
AR Potentiometer Restoration Guide
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-25-2010, 12:41 PM
nickv41's Avatar
nickv41 nickv41 is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Waldwick, NJ
Posts: 661
You cant go wrong with Advents. I have a pair of original large advents, new large advents and a pair of advent heritage that I use as mains on my ht setup. I wouldnt part with them.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-25-2010, 12:46 PM
JohnVF JohnVF is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 29,127
They're different. In my opinion (hey, you said you like other's opinions!) if you want a similar sound that's a bit farther along in it's evolution, get the Boston Acoustics A-150 instead of the Advents. It was designed by the guy who did the New Large Advent (Andy Petit?), and I think he did a fantastic job with it. There's nothing really extraordinary about it..it just sounds good. But I never cared for Advents so your mileage may vary. I like the AR-2ax I had, in light of what I had at the time.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-25-2010, 12:48 PM
mfhale's Avatar
mfhale mfhale is offline
ciao
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 3,793
I'm with tmad40blue...get them and try them out.

Like you, I'm a fan of the East Coast sound and really liked Advents in particular...until they were dethroned recently by a pair of KLH Model Six.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #6  
Old 08-25-2010, 01:45 PM
2chanman 2chanman is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Stamford, Connecticut.
Posts: 685
If they are the original Advent, they must have been refoamed. Verify that his was done properly or professionally. They may even not have the original woofers. I have seen Advents that were mutilated beyond reclamation by incompetent "repair". Also, the original tweeters weren't much to write home about.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-25-2010, 02:08 PM
Moon_Man's Avatar
Moon_Man Moon_Man is offline
Dreps Crone Maze
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central Upstate NY
Posts: 778
Yes, of course your right about Kloss.

The pics I've seen of the Advents certainly look like they are original (save for the foam) including the masonite-ringed woofie.

I've been talking to the owner and he's one of us - he's got collector's fever. So I am not too concerned that these have been "improved upon".
__________________
Fledgling DCM Collector: CX-17's, TimeWindow 1's (Round DCM drivers), TimeWindow 1's (Octogon Phillips drivers), TimeFrame 2000's, and always on the prowl.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-25-2010, 02:29 PM
Zilch's Avatar
Zilch Zilch is offline
Curve Junkie
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 12,484
"Evolution" is correct, but the fried egg tweeter is "a total underperformer compared with modern designs," according to Stereophile's John Atkinson, who measured them in Smaller Advents four years ago. Thus, large Advents are well-known not only as AudioKarma's most owned and most loved loudspeaker (largely, in my view, because they are universally available for chump change) as well as slam-dunk upgrade candidates:

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=165025

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=258298

http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196614

You are comparing a 2- versus 3-way here. I have no data on AR2ax other than that provided by David Smith (yes, THAT David Smith) on the Classic Speaker Pages forum, which pretty much defines what they are:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/I...topic=5282&hl=

See also:

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/I...topic=5603&hl=

Quote:
Originally Posted by tysontom
As for the woofer, the Advent has the same resonance (41-43 Hz; Q of .728-.788) as and is very close in performance to the AR-3/AR-3a woofer, and therefore it has the advantage of more extension and significantly more power-handling than the AR-2ax woofer (resonance 56.7 Hz; Q of 1.37). The Advent even came very close to the AR-3/3a woofer on harmonic distortion: Julian Hirsch tested the original Advent with only 9% distortion at 25 Hz with 10 watts input; the AR-3 came in at 8% at 20 Hz with 20 watts input, so both woofers did very well down very low. For a number of reasons, therefore, the Advent woofer could probably handle 50% more power in the deep-bass frequencies than the AR-2a/AR-5.
[Henry had a secret.... ]
__________________
"More data ... less wank ...

In relentless pursuit of truth, enlightenment, and the AudioKarma way...."


November 22, 1942 ~ February 4, 2011 R.I.P.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Audiokarma.org Member of the Year 2010

Last edited by Zilch; 08-25-2010 at 02:44 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-25-2010, 03:35 PM
ddragg1 ddragg1 is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 298
I have AR3a's, AR2a's and AR4ax's. How do these compare with my original large Advents and original smaller Advents? I like the Advents because you dont need as much power to drive them. The large Advents are a teriffic sounding two way design. In fact, you would think they were a 3 way design because of how well rounded they sound. Same goes for the smaller Advents. Do they sound better than the AR's? I think for rock music they do, but for jazz and acoustic music the AR's get my vote. I haven't recapped either pairs, so that could make a difference. I would say get them if the price is good.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-25-2010, 03:57 PM
Grainger49's Avatar
Grainger49 Grainger49 is offline
Old Fart
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 6,384
Zilch, it was years ago but I sold both. I think the AR 2 series is a two way, the AR 3 a three way, but the AR 4 is a two way so there is no rhyme or reason to the numbers that I know of. We all know the Advent is a 2 way.

The Advent Loudspeaker, as it was called, was Henry Kloss' baby. He had wanted to build it for KLH but was made to design the KLH 5 instead. I toured the "factory" and it was insane! The fried egg started life in the toe of pantyhose. Impressive manufacturing techniques. Yes, I'm a fan but the two speakers are enough different the OP should decide for himself.
__________________
"Remember, you are the only one who needs to be happy with the sound of your system."

Grainger Morrison

Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
  #11  
Old 08-25-2010, 04:13 PM
robobxman's Avatar
robobxman robobxman is offline
Roll me away tonight...
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sunny Florida
Posts: 1,124
I think the Advents are more versatile than the AR2ax's - in line with what ddrag said. But AR2ax's can be magic w/ jazz and vocals if placed correctly. I had mine on shelves and it made a big difference.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-25-2010, 07:23 PM
Nat's Avatar
Nat Nat is offline
AK Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,630
I like both, but it seems to me that the Advent, with its tweeter flush with the grill and its oddball 8 inch cone/12 inch basket does surprisingly better than you might expect with polar response and imaging -- the AR ought to be better, but I'm not sure it is. On the other hand, the enclosures of ARs, especially early ones, are stouter and less resonant. And then there are the dreaded AR pots which are right up there with death and taxes for inevitable unhappiness. But then again, the ARs are just better looking -- the bullnose Advents are handsome, but the proportions aren't as good as the AR, and AR grill cloth is much nicer.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-25-2010, 07:26 PM
audiojones's Avatar
audiojones audiojones is offline
Jonesin' for audio
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 4,909
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grainger49 View Post
...it was years ago but I sold both. I think the AR 2 series is a two way, the AR 3 a three way, but the AR 4 is a two way so there is no rhyme or reason to the numbers that I know of.
You are partially correct - the AR2 was indeed a 2 way, but the AR2a and AR2ax were 3 way designs. The 2ax was the improved version of the AR2a and was introduced in 1964.

Anyway, all that aside - I also have and enjoy the AR3a, AR2ax, and KLH Twenty-Three to name a few. However, upon discovering The Smaller Advent Loudspeaker as it is formally named, I have to say that I am in love with the Advents and currently own 3 pair that see quite a bit of use. Personally I like both the orange and green tweeters quite a bit, and I sure wouldn't want it any brighter than it is. To my ears it sounds very balanced and the bass response is unbelievable for a speaker of it's modest size. It is a shame that the only cabinet option is the cheesey walnut grain contact paper, but the important thing is that they sound excellent (IMHO). I have no experience with the Larger Advent Loudspeaker but I'd say go for it. I wish that I had found out about the Small Advent sooner!
__________________
System 1: Pioneer SX-950, AR3a, Smaller Advents, KEF C-25, Technics SL-1600/V15III, TEAC A-2300S, Phillips CDR-775
System 2: Adcom GFP-555II/GFA-555 PRO, Sansui TU-717, AR TSW-610, Polk Monitor 10b, Technics SL-1311/Empire 400TC, Sony TC-758, Phillips CDR-775
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-25-2010, 10:49 PM
Isotonic's Avatar
Isotonic Isotonic is offline
A Delicious Avocado
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Round Rock, Texas
Posts: 4,255
I like the Smaller Advent too. Very balanced all around speaker. The tweeter can get a little harsh.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-25-2010, 11:18 PM
asoundhound's Avatar
asoundhound asoundhound is offline
Definitely Low-fi
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: hattiesburg, ms
Posts: 2,958
i've got original large advents, new large advents, ar 2a's and a pair of each version of the 2ax's.

it's apples and oranges. both the advents and the ar's have their strengths and weaknesses. but there is really not much similar about them.
__________________
sansui au-7900/tu-7900, mcs 6700, nak cr-1a, denon dcd-1290, new large advents.
Reply With Quote
Audiokarma
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:00 AM.



Friends of Audiokarma
We appreciate your help in keeping this site going.
Stereo Repair World
Herbies Audio Lab
Vintage Home Audio
Amps and Sound
Pro DJ Headphones - click here
Organ Donor Parts
Wargos Electronics
Parts Connexion
Sonneteer
Take Five Audio
Sound Stage Direct
Audio Salon
AudioClassics
Audience AV
AV Solutions
Simply Speakers
Tone Arm Audio
BD Enterprise
Musical Paradise
Howard Products
Classic Sound Repair
FM DX Antenna
McIntosh Cabinets
Siliconray
BOI Audio Works
Vinyl Magic Record Cleaner
Amplifiedparts
Grant Fidelity
RSL Speakers
Yesterday's Audio
Urban Antigue Radio
DeWick Repairs
Many Moons Audio
Vintage Electronics Repair
The Tube Store
Politicalchat.org
Audio Doctor
Antique Radio Classifieds
MCM Electronics
Videokarma.org
   
   
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
ęCopyright 2002-2014 AudioKarma.org, All rights reserved.