Baldwin organ tubes - who made them?
- Thread starter BmWr75
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trumpet668
New Member
I have some Baldwin black plates that were made by Raytheon
UnGrounded
Well-Known Member
Basically ANY manufacturer made tubes for electronics companies.
It was all about whoever could provide the best prices, but sure, there could have been some exclusive contracts.
Many U.S. components had tubes from Europe because the American dollar was so strong in the 60's that often tubes like Telefunkens could be bought in bulk cheaper than buying domestic.
For example, my Scott 299 is a tour of the world. My specific unit retailed with four Amperex 7189's (Holland), two Mullard 6BL8's (England), four Telefunken 12AX7's (Germany), and a GE 5AR4 (America).
I saw a Baldwin 6L6GC pair made by General Electric sell on Ebay a couple days ago.
It was all about whoever could provide the best prices, but sure, there could have been some exclusive contracts.
Many U.S. components had tubes from Europe because the American dollar was so strong in the 60's that often tubes like Telefunkens could be bought in bulk cheaper than buying domestic.
For example, my Scott 299 is a tour of the world. My specific unit retailed with four Amperex 7189's (Holland), two Mullard 6BL8's (England), four Telefunken 12AX7's (Germany), and a GE 5AR4 (America).
I saw a Baldwin 6L6GC pair made by General Electric sell on Ebay a couple days ago.
Like most major American organ manufacturers, Baldwin tubes were from American manufacturers. They were among the biggest purchasers of certain types of vacuum tubes in the world. They wanted to keep their suppliers close, got the best quantity discounts, and usually got the best of the available tubes (tiny drips of paint on tube tops meant the tubes passed extra QC tests. For preamp tubes this meant best for microphonics.).
The Baldwin tubes should have the manufacturer's EIA number on them. The most common used by Baldwin were:
188 = GE
274 = RCA
280 = Raytheon
312 = Sylvania
The Baldwin tubes should have the manufacturer's EIA number on them. The most common used by Baldwin were:
188 = GE
274 = RCA
280 = Raytheon
312 = Sylvania
I've never seen an RCA without the 274 EIA code. Some of the other brands I've found without them. Generally, at least in the tube-dominant era, and just from my own knowledge, RCA and GE used white paint (distinguished by their very different etched markings), Sylvania used green, Raytheon used yellow, and Tung-Sol had an annoying habit of trying to look just like RCA. Generally Tung-Sol's octagon etch was a bit thicker and sloppier than RCA's. I haven't run across enough CBS/Hytron tubes to comment on those.
Here are examples of the tubes I'm asking about, see picture. They are a little dusty, but not nearly as bad as when I pulled them, couldn't even tell what they were at first. They test like new.
Tube on the left is a Baldwin 12AX7A (most likely Raytheon produced), yellow label, black plate, halo getter, date code = P28061-250
Tube on the right is a Baldwin 12AU7A (most likely Sylvania produced), green label, grey plate, halo getter, date code = 31 12 26
Anyone hazard a guess when these were made? I know there is a web site that give all the tube manufacturer date codes, but have lost the link to it.
Anyone have any experience with how these might compare sound-wise to the more famous European produced tubes (Amperex, Mullard, Telefunken, etc.)?
Tube on the left is a Baldwin 12AX7A (most likely Raytheon produced), yellow label, black plate, halo getter, date code = P28061-250
Tube on the right is a Baldwin 12AU7A (most likely Sylvania produced), green label, grey plate, halo getter, date code = 31 12 26
Anyone hazard a guess when these were made? I know there is a web site that give all the tube manufacturer date codes, but have lost the link to it.
Anyone have any experience with how these might compare sound-wise to the more famous European produced tubes (Amperex, Mullard, Telefunken, etc.)?
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UnGrounded
Well-Known Member
A friend of mine is the original owner of a 1967 Hammond organ (a U.S.A. company). He never changed the tubes. I checked it out and it's loaded full of Hammond-label Mullards.
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If it's a Matsushita, it's still a very good tube to have. The internals tell the tale of whose equipment it was made on. The Japanese pulled a hard vacuum (not quite as hard as a TFK). Consider it a slightly drier, cooler sounding Amperex for the most part. I find them a bit tougher than their European siblings in more demanding circuits.
Organ makers sourced tubes from just about everybody, but all were screened for extremely low noise. They won't last any longer than any other sample from the source lots, but they should be dead quiet if still within the useful life curve. And most of the small signal types you will find will still test strong, as the circuits were generally very conservatively rated.
The benefits of organ marked tubes used to be more of a secret. But now the word is out, and they're fetching decent prices.
The Raytheon BP is as good or better than a comparable age RCA BP. Should be rich and tonally vibrant across the whole spectrum. It will be tonally richer and heavier than a TFK (typical smooth or ribbed) or Amperex halo getter, slightly more rolled off on top compared to those two, and closer to a Mullard. The TFK will beat it in the lower treble, and a short plate Amperex may do some voices a little better. But everywhere else, the Raytheon holds its own. And unless the Mullard (or Amperex) is an earlier long-plate, the Raytheon is better than either in my opinion. I don't think it betters either of those early long plates, but it would be very, very close, and better in some systems. A potentially great tube. I've got some of these. In the first-tier of the US makes for that family.
That Sylvania is a little more average sounding than the Raytheon, but still a very nice tube. Cleaner and less heavy (faster) than the Raytheon. But being a different family, it will usually find itself in different circuit surroundings.
Bear in mind it all depends on the rest of the chain. In the wrong system, either could be a disaster.
Wasn't that factory tooled by Mullard?
Philips set up the Matsushita plant, and brought in tooling from both Mullard and Amperex facilities. And the Japanese ran it with their typical obsessive attention to detail, so the tubes are very well made.
Not to drag this thread too far afield, but how did the materials used in the electrical parts of the Matsushita tubes compare to the Amperex and Mullard originals?
DonBattles
Well-Known Member
Some additional information on Baldwin: http://www.audiotubes.com/12ax7.htm
12AX7 early 1950s RCA made longplate greyplate (all longplate types), white or orange label, some low noise screened for Wurlitzer, Baldwin, Lowrey, and other organs and amplifiers, other OEM brands.
New Old Stock in whiteboxes. These 1950s era longplates have been screened for low noise use in Wurlitzer and other brands of organs, and to exacting specs for various manufacturers of amplifiers. Some are labelled "Wurlitzer by RCA" in the old white ink label, or Baldwin in yellow ink, various amp brands, and few are unlabelled, some labeled for other brands or hi-fi brands. Some are early Tung Sol label made by RCA. Wonderful in musical instrument amps, and a very quiet tube for your tube hi-fi, works well in both applications. Probably the best 12AX7 RCA made, maybe even better than the famed blackplates. Organ tubes, being made by famous makers and factory-screened, are about the best "secret" bargain in NOS tubes today. Grab some now before the secret is out! A
12AX7 early 1950s RCA made longplate greyplate (all longplate types), white or orange label, some low noise screened for Wurlitzer, Baldwin, Lowrey, and other organs and amplifiers, other OEM brands.
New Old Stock in whiteboxes. These 1950s era longplates have been screened for low noise use in Wurlitzer and other brands of organs, and to exacting specs for various manufacturers of amplifiers. Some are labelled "Wurlitzer by RCA" in the old white ink label, or Baldwin in yellow ink, various amp brands, and few are unlabelled, some labeled for other brands or hi-fi brands. Some are early Tung Sol label made by RCA. Wonderful in musical instrument amps, and a very quiet tube for your tube hi-fi, works well in both applications. Probably the best 12AX7 RCA made, maybe even better than the famed blackplates. Organ tubes, being made by famous makers and factory-screened, are about the best "secret" bargain in NOS tubes today. Grab some now before the secret is out! A
