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Newb needs a new amp in the $500 range.

CJReaper

CJReaper

New Member
Hi,

A few days ago my old, beloved Yamaha Natural Sound Stereo Control Amp (CX-800U) and power amp (MX-800U) started the slow death process. I called a local repair shop but was told the parts are hard to get, expensive, and that I'd be better off buying new equipment.

Now, I'm pretty much a newb, I'm not an audiophile and I don't need the best of the best. I'm looking for a good integrated stereo amplifier for no more than $500. So far the models I'm looking at are:

Yamaha AX-497

Marantz PM5004

Cambridge Audio Azur 350A

NAD C 326BEE

Any pro/cons/comparisons of these models would be greatly appreciated. Also feel free to suggest any I haven't mentioned, so long as they are in the same price range. :thmbsp:

I'll be using these with a pair of Definitive Technology PM700 speakers, primarily for music but DVDs as well. Thanks in advance for your help!

Cheers,

CJ
 
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Hi and welcome to AK CJ.

You really have set out some nice choices for your amplifier replacement. I would recommend the Marantz only because I have heard that unit and it sounds great. The price is right with what you can afford. I hope it is your choice. I am considering one for a bedroom system I would like to have for next year. The sound is very clean and natural with a wide open soundstage you should enjoy with your Difinitive system. Plus the Marantz line has a following you will enjoy here on AK.

Good luck.
 
I have a Cambridge Audio azur 640a v2 that I've been using for a couple years now (I think) as my main amp.

It retails for $500 to $650, but I got it for under $300 used. And that was back before the new model (650) was released. (Which I think goes for $700).

I love it, I have felt no need to "upgrade" (granted I'm pretty good at resisting that urge, at least compared to some). It seems to have a pretty balanced sound signature, accurate, neutral, and clean (some say it is a bit bright, but I haven't had any problems and I pair it with another "bright" Cambridge product, their DAC Magic as well as use it with my "bright" Usher 520's and Quad 12 L2's...all in a wood floored room), has a good open and somewhat lively sound and drives anything I've thrown at it (which is only 3 speakers so far though). It can rock and it can play quiet subtle passages with ease (and make the transitions well), it seems poweful yet nuanced and detailed. Listening to it right now with my Quad 12L2's speakers and it sounds great. :music:

I looked at several amps before deciding on it, from Music Hall to Dussen to Creek to NAD to Rega to Rotel to I don't even remember! Seemed the Cambridge was more of a good affordable all rounder compared to some. I too am not after "the best" sound (that isn't possible at any price level imo) and am more than happy with this amp. I doubt I'll "upgrade" as long as it keeps working flawlessly (but you never know :D). This is my first "real hi-fi" amp, the rest were old bpc and vintage receivers and I can say it blows them all away by any criteria I can think of. (All my gear is listed in my albums on my profile btw).

If you are willing to go used (an excellent idea imo), look around on Audiogon and you can get some great prices on an amp. You could also ask this very question there and will get lots of helpful feedback as well (as I'm sure you will here, I'm just saying...).

I would recommend the Cambridge line up for good "entry level" all rounder amps from what I've read about other models and my own experience with the 640a V2.

Good luck, you really can't go wrong with the major brands I would think.


PS: As for pro or cons of some of the other brands you mention, well, I really don't know, because I haven't heard any Nad or Marantz, but what I've read about them that steered me away from them is the NAD's are "good for metal" (so maybe have a V or U shaped sound?) and the Marantz are a little to "soft" or "polite" to really rock out. Just what I seemed to gather when looking at those brands when researching for a integrated for under $500. Also, with Music Hall, which I was close to getting at one point, someone told me they are too "dry" and "clinical". Just in case you started looking at that brand as well. All jwir/h (just what I've read/heard).
 
Old_Tech said:
Hi and welcome to AK CJ.

You really have set out some nice choices for your amplifier replacement. I would recommend the Marantz only because I have heard that unit and it sounds great. The price is right with what you can afford. I hope it is your choice. I am considering one for a bedroom system I would like to have for next year. The sound is very clean and natural with a wide open soundstage you should enjoy with your Difinitive system. Plus the Marantz line has a following you will enjoy here on AK.

Good luck.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much! The Marantz is looking good as it has a phono input which is a plus for me as I still have my Denon DP-23F turntable and I'd like to be able to use it with my new amp occasionally.

Permanent Waves said:
I have a Cambridge Audio azur 640a v2 that I've been using for a couple years now (I think) as my main amp.

It retails for $500 to $650, but I got it for under $300 used. And that was back before the new model (650) was released. (Which I think goes for $700).

I love it, I have felt no need to "upgrade" (granted I'm pretty good at resisting that urge, at least compared to some). It seems to have a pretty balanced sound signature, accurate, neutral, and clean (some say it is a bit bright, but I haven't had any problems and I pair it with another "bright" Cambridge product, their DAC Magic as well as use it with my "bright" Usher 520's and Quad 12 L2's...all in a wood floored room), has a good open and somewhat lively sound and drives anything I've thrown at it (which is only 3 speakers so far though). It can rock and it can play quiet subtle passages with ease (and make the transitions well), it seems poweful yet nuanced and detailed. Listening to it right now with my Quad 12L2's speakers and it sounds great. :music:

I looked at several amps before deciding on it, from Music Hall to Dussen to Creek to NAD to Rega to Rotel to I don't even remember! Seemed the Cambridge was more of a good affordable all rounder compared to some. I too am not after "the best" sound (that isn't possible at any price level imo) and am more than happy with this amp. I doubt I'll "upgrade" as long as it keeps working flawlessly (but you never know :D). This is my first "real hi-fi" amp, the rest were old bpc and vintage receivers and I can say it blows them all away by any criteria I can think of. (All my gear is listed in my albums on my profile btw).

If you are willing to go used (an excellent idea imo), look around on Audiogon and you can get some great prices on an amp. You could also ask this very question there and will get lots of helpful feedback as well (as I'm sure you will here, I'm just saying...).

I would recommend the Cambridge line up for good "entry level" all rounder amps from what I've read about other models and my own experience with the 640a V2.

Good luck, you really can't go wrong with the major brands I would think.


PS: As for pro or cons of some of the other brands you mention, well, I really don't know, because I haven't heard any Nad or Marantz, but what I've read about them that steered me away from them is the NAD's are "good for metal" (so maybe have a V or U shaped sound?) and the Marantz are a little to "soft" or "polite" to really rock out. Just what I seemed to gather when looking at those brands when researching for a integrated for under $500. Also, with Music Hall, which I was close to getting at one point, someone told me they are too "dry" and "clinical". Just in case you started looking at that brand as well. All jwir/h (just what I've read/heard).
Click to expand...

Nice avatar! I just saw Rush in July, amazing show! Moving Pictures is a CD I use for sound reference, Geddy's bass and Neil's drums sound soooooo good on that recording!

Funny about the NAD amps, I listen to a lot of "Metal" (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Dio, Slayer, Morbid Angel, etc.) but ironically I can't stand a lot of modern metal "production", especially the scooped mids on the guitars, drives me nuts, lol. Another review mentioned that NADs sound "soft" or "muted" and from my experience I agree. It's been years but I do recall the NAD amp I used as being a little soft and muted in the sound.

So far from everything I've read in the last 24 hours Cambridge Audio and Marantz are at the top of my list. Plus there are a couple of local dealers so I can give them a listen before I hand over the cash. Going used is another option I'm going to look into, I just need to educate myself a bit more. Thanks for the great info!

Cheers,

CJ
 
CJReaper said:
Nice avatar! I just saw Rush in July, amazing show! Moving Pictures is a CD I use for sound reference, Geddy's bass and Neil's drums sound soooooo good on that recording!
Click to expand...

Thanks! Yea Rush is my favorite band by far and has been for about 20 years now. I'm a huge Rush freak and admit it. :D Seen them 8 times so far, including this July and Aug. Will be seeing them next summer (if they tour which they probably will) as well! :yes: Best band live I've ever seen. :music:

MP is a great test cd; I also like Power Windows and Permanent Waves too. I go through a lot of the Rush catalog when testing speakers, amps, headphones, etc.

CJReaper said:
Funny about the NAD amps, I listen to a lot of "Metal" (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Dio, Slayer, Morbid Angel, etc.) but ironically I can't stand a lot of modern metal "production", especially the scooped mids on the guitars, drives me nuts, lol. Another review mentioned that NADs sound "soft" or "muted" and from my experience I agree. It's been years but I do recall the NAD amp I used as being a little soft and muted in the sound.

So far from everything I've read in the last 24 hours Cambridge Audio and Marantz are at the top of my list. Plus there are a couple of local dealers so I can give them a listen before I hand over the cash. Going used is another option I'm going to look into, I just need to educate myself a bit more. Thanks for the great info!

Cheers,

CJ
Click to expand...

I like a lot of metal too (check out the metal thread to see some of what I've posted in there over the past year or so...hope to see you in there posting as well! :thmbsp: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121077), and I find the Cambridge handles it well.

Maybe what I've heard about NAD amps is that they are kind of "warm" and so cover up some of the lesser recordings of the older metal (80's) as well as tame the harshness of newer albums so that's why they are recommended for metal. I really don't remember. I listen to metal often with my Grado 225i headphones for this reason though, their warm mid range (even if their highs are kind of grainy).

A lot of metal, and any not very well recorded albums of any genre for that matter, the Cambridge will reveal the defects of (of course the speakers are the most important here, as well as the DAC). I found my vintage receivers to warm or gloss over these defects with metal more than the Cambridge (kind of like the 225i's), but I still like the Cambridge better because it is simply more "hi-fi" and refined (hence more revealing and transparent and less colored). So yea, it can be revealing/transparent. Well recorded metal/hard rock albums sound fantastic however. :music: And since I can go from metal to singer songwriter to 80's synth pop to hard rock to classic rock to prog rock to newer rock in the course of a day, I don't want a amp colored to be best with any one genre. I want a good all rounder and I think the Cambridge is one.

I recommend used because it's hard to mess up an amp via misuse and audiophiles tend to take care of their stuff anyway. I won't buy used speakers or headphones since they can be abused (even by audiophiles), but amps can and should last years without problems. They can be real bargains.

If you care about professional reviews (I go with user first and then professional reviews as a supplement) the Cambridge azur line up of amps and cd players have gotten good/great reviews afaik. Whathifi likes them for one, and they review a lot of other "budget" amps. http://www.whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Hi-fi-amplifiers-Reviews/
 
Muisc Hall has a new integrated at your price point. Check out Spearit Sound on-line. I had a few good buys from them, free ship and such. Everyone has mentioned the usual suspects. Also check Audiogon, often many audiophiles buy gear in that price range and upgrade a few months later or use it in their 2nd system and doesn't see a lot of action.
 
The more powerful Marantz PM-8003 can be found relatively cheaply if you look around since the PM-8004, I know musicdirect has it just outside of your budget and I wouldn't be surprised if it's priced similarly elsewhere since its been superseded by the new unit. I sent you a PM with a few more ideas.
 
If I were you, I'd consider a second opinion on your Yamaha gear. I'm not saying your local tech is wrong, but maybe he just has more work lined up than he has time to do. I've heard of such things happening before.

It wouldn't hurt to ask some questions on the Yamaha forum. There are some great techs on here, but there are probably rules against them soliciting business in the open forums. If you nose around on the Yamaha forum, you'll probably pick up some names of trustworthy techs to whom you could send a private message.

I mention this because you didn't say you were tired of the Yamaha setup, just that it needed repair. Nothing against any of the integrateds mentioned, it's just that once you've had that sort of power and headroom, it's hard to go down to less.

$500 thrown at your amp and preamp with the right tech would probably make them good for another 22 years, and it may be less just to get them working again.
 
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stereofanboy said:
If I were you, I'd consider a second opinion on your Yamaha gear. I'm not saying your local tech is wrong, but maybe he just has more work lined up than he has time to do. I've heard of such things happening before.
Click to expand...

+1 on that. Where is local?
 
A little known gem is the Denon DRA-CX3 stereo receiver. It is beautiful,has plenty of power(75w into 8ohm 150w into 4ohm),sounds fantastic,has phono,a good tuner,and a great headphone section. I bought one back when it sold for $1200 and thought it was worth every penny,now that it's only $579 with free shipping from listenup it is a mad bargain!
http://www.listenup.com/Denon+DRA-CX3-p-DRACX3-p-49980.html
 
geared4me said:
A little known gem is the Denon DRA-CX3 stereo receiver. It is beautiful,has plenty of power(75w into 8ohm 150w into 4ohm),sounds fantastic,has phono,a good tuner,and a great headphone section. I bought one back when it sold for $1200 and thought it was worth every penny,now that it's only $579 with free shipping from listenup it is a mad bargain!
http://www.listenup.com/Denon+DRA-CX3-p-DRACX3-p-49980.html
Click to expand...

That does look like a good deal!
 
Permanent Waves said:
Maybe what I've heard about NAD amps is that they are kind of "warm" and so cover up some of the lesser recordings of the older metal (80's) as well as tame the harshness of newer albums so that's why they are recommended for metal. I really don't remember. I listen to metal often with my Grado 225i headphones for this reason though, their warm mid range (even if their highs are kind of grainy).

A lot of metal, and any not very well recorded albums of any genre for that matter, the Cambridge will reveal the defects of (of course the speakers are the most important here, as well as the DAC). I found my vintage receivers to warm or gloss over these defects with metal more than the Cambridge (kind of like the 225i's), but I still like the Cambridge better because it is simply more "hi-fi" and refined (hence more revealing and transparent and less colored). So yea, it can be revealing/transparent. Well recorded metal/hard rock albums sound fantastic however. :music: And since I can go from metal to singer songwriter to 80's synth pop to hard rock to classic rock to prog rock to newer rock in the course of a day, I don't want a amp colored to be best with any one genre. I want a good all rounder and I think the Cambridge is one.

I recommend used because it's hard to mess up an amp via misuse and audiophiles tend to take care of their stuff anyway. I won't buy used speakers or headphones since they can be abused (even by audiophiles), but amps can and should last years without problems. They can be real bargains.

If you care about professional reviews (I go with user first and then professional reviews as a supplement) the Cambridge azur line up of amps and cd players have gotten good/great reviews afaik. Whathifi likes them for one, and they review a lot of other "budget" amps. http://www.whathifi.com/Reviews/Hi-Fi-Reviews/Hi-fi-amplifiers-Reviews/
Click to expand...

When I first got my PM700 speakers I was amazed at how many flaws they brought out in the recordings, lol. Martin Birch is one of my favorite producers/engineers and I love his work on Iron Maiden's "Piece of Mind". When I first ran it through those speakers I heard all kinds of tape splices and noises I had never heard before, lol. I still love that record and the overall production, but I totally get what you are saying about the flaws that come out with better stereo gear. I should also mention that I do listen to Classical (Wagner, Vivaldi, Mozart, Mussorgsky), Classic Rock and some Jazz guitar as well (Pat Metheny in particular), so the amp will be used for more than just "Devil Music", lol. That being the case the CA gear is really looking good since it seems to do well with multiple genres.

I also found a cool store nearby that has a lot of used gear (Hawthorne Stereo) as well as Cambridge Audio, so I'll be paying them a visit in the near future.

stereofanboy said:
If I were you, I'd consider a second opinion on your Yamaha gear. I'm not saying your local tech is wrong, but maybe he just has more work lined up than he has time to do. I've heard of such things happening before.

It wouldn't hurt to ask some questions on the Yamaha forum. There are some great techs on here, but there are probably rules against them soliciting business in the open forums. If you nose around on the Yamaha forum, you'll probably pick up some names of trustworthy techs to whom you could send a private message.

I mention this because you didn't say you were tired of the Yamaha setup, just that it needed repair. Nothing against any of the integrateds mentioned, it's just that once you've had that sort of power and headroom, it's hard to go down to less.

$500 thrown at your amp and preamp with the right tech would probably make them good for another 22 years, and it may be less just to get them working again.
Click to expand...

Very good point, I'll post over on the Yamaha board later and see if anyone there can offer a second opinion. I really do like the gear I have, I just don't want to open a can of worms trying to get it fixed if it would be easier to buy new.

classic carl said:
+1 on that. Where is local?
Click to expand...

Seattle. :thmbsp:

Thanks again to everyone who has replied so far, lots of great information, I really appreciate it!

Cheers,

CJ
 
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If you want your Yam's fixed, here are two great sources:
Merrylander- AK member in Maryland. He's tops on Yams. Seattle is a geographically challenging but you have two desirable units.
Another great resource: http://www.legendaryamps.com/ I think he is in New York
Screw the freight costs. Do it right.

On the other hand-I think you deserve new gear. I'll take those worn out Yams from you. You should unload that "old skool" stuff before they are nothing but boat anchors.
I feel your pain and I want to give you the freedom to pursue your dream. How about $200 for both and I'll pay the freight.

bhebbel
 
P.S.
I have a Yamaha CT-1010 and a CA-1010. I'm the original owner and they are both 9's on a 10 scale. These are two of the most collectible Yam's for reasonable money.

Now look a the best integrated amp that Yamaha sells today.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/...66250&CTID=5002300&ATRID=1010&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

$2499 for 90W watts per channel

My 30+ year old Yam has 90 wpc that matches the specs of the new unit!

Yamaha's latest integrated amps even have the retro look of the 70's gear!

The truth is that amp technology hasn't changed that much for high end audio gear.
Oh-I forgot. My antique gear doesn't have remotes.

You are sitting on one of the best amps that ever put out 170 wpc . You can't purchase better gear for the cost of getting your Yams repaired.

If I were you, the only reason I would replace you current setup is boredom. I'lll help you get rid of the boredom for $200!!!!!

bhebbel
 
Since I recently bought one and I'm very happy with it, I highly recommend the NAD 326BEE. Perhaps you've read the TAS review from last year? The conclusion was that he had absolutely no reservations whatsoever about recommending it, and that it's better than the best amps of 20 years ago? Based on that I got it, and let me tell you, for $500 it is a damn fine amp.

The only potential issue is the power rating: 50wpc. In a smallish room and/or with efficient speakers this should not be a problem at all. It seems to be able to provide a ton of current when needed, and frankly I rarely turn the volume knob past 10 O'clock. The sound is neutral and clean, lots of detail, there's really little to complain about.

So definitely keep that one in mind. Also bear in mind this is a site with a huge amount of vintage audio fans, and that's cool, but in every case when I've heard newer gear it simply blows away the older stuff, and frankly, this should be expected.
 
CJReaper said:
When I first got my PM700 speakers I was amazed at how many flaws they brought out in the recordings, lol. Martin Birch is one of my favorite producers/engineers and I love his work on Iron Maiden's "Piece of Mind". When I first ran it through those speakers I heard all kinds of tape splices and noises I had never heard before, lol. I still love that record and the overall production, but I totally get what you are saying about the flaws that come out with better stereo gear. I should also mention that I do listen to Classical (Wagner, Vivaldi, Mozart, Mussorgsky), Classic Rock and some Jazz guitar as well (Pat Metheny in particular), so the amp will be used for more than just "Devil Music", lol. That being the case the CA gear is really looking good since it seems to do well with multiple genres.

I also found a cool store nearby that has a lot of used gear (Hawthorne Stereo) as well as Cambridge Audio, so I'll be paying them a visit in the near future.
CJ
Click to expand...

Yea, some people don't like "revealing/transparent/accurate" gear since it will bring out the defects in lesser recordings, not cover them up via coloration. But I like more neutral gear because I want to hear what the recording sounds like as uncolored as possible (at least at the price point I'm willing to pay for). All amps (and speakers and DACS) will have some kind of sound signature though, even the ones that are described as fairly neutral. But some are more colored than others.

I listen to some classical and jazz too (not much though) and think the Cambridge does well with them. If that was my MAIN style of music I might, however, have gone with a Marantz since they are described as "smooth and rich" over the more neutral/analytic/crisp Cambridge sound. It depends on what music you listen to most and what sound you like most.

I'd check out that Whathifi site since they do seem to know what they are talking about for the most part imo. It's a good way to get acquainted with some different amps and their makers at least.


bhebbel said:
P.S.
I have a Yamaha CT-1010 and a CA-1010. I'm the original owner and they are both 9's on a 10 scale. These are two of the most collectible Yam's for reasonable money.

Now look a the best integrated amp that Yamaha sells today.
http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/...66250&CTID=5002300&ATRID=1010&DETYP=ATTRIBUTE

$2499 for 90W watts per channel

My 30+ year old Yam has 90 wpc that matches the specs of the new unit!

bhebbel
Click to expand...


Yes, but what was the cost of your old Yamahas adjusted for inflation? How much did you buy them for and how much is that in today's prices? So many things people thought were "cheap" decades ago really weren't compared to today's prices when adjusted for inflation.

For instance I looked up the retail price (per copies of old ads) of my Pioneer 650 and 980 back when I got them a couple years ago. The 650 cost $325 in '77, the 980 cost $650 in '79. There's no way I'd pay even that much for either today (they don't sound that good and there are better options, especially used, for cheaper like my 640a v2 that kills both in SQ imo), but in actuality they cost $1,170.82 and $1,954.58 back when they came out, adjusted for inflation! There's NO WAY I'd pay that much for either or they were cheap or bargains back when they came out iow. They were just as much "rip offs" as their contemporary counterparts. (I will say the build quality was better; sound quality is debatable).

So it's not like this vintage gear was at all bargains new either, it's just seems that way if we think about the prices they cost decades ago in today's terms, but this is not a fair or accurate comparison of course.


JohnVF said:
Yep.
Click to expand...

x3. :yes:
 
there are a few people on here who repair these things. I have a C-65 and a M-70 amp, and it honestly sounds amazing when put up against my newer stuff. It is worth repair...
 
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