DIY Anti Static gun

I seen a post about a peizo electric lighter turned into a anti static gun. I picked this up http://www.amazon.com/Camco-57533-Olympian-Multi-Sparker/dp/B000EDSTAG. I ran the wires to the correct places & it seems like it works only sometimes & it even seems to work after I place the gun down & then just point it at the static every so often. I know I seen battery operated guns & know about the zerostat but I refuse to give anything more then $20 for something like that. Can someone give me some info on what I need to do to tweak my diy gun to get it to work 100%? Please don't tell me gruv glide or buy a zerostat I use gruv glide & I still have static & I'm not shelling out $100. Thanks!

Here's a picture:




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Note: the ground wires (one from the light & one from the board) that use to attach to the metal tube are now attached to a back strap on the handle I made.

I may be missing something, but I don't see how this will work to eliminate static from a record. There are two totally different things going on here. The lighter generates a high voltage pulse that is intended to jump an air gap and generate a spark. I can tell it is a pulse from the transformer I see in the picture. My guess is that there is a small battery powered oscillator that feeds the primary of the transformer and the secondary steps the primary voltage up enough to generate a series of high voltage pulses, which cause a spark.
This is not what the zerostat does. It generates a high voltage DC field that causes a cloud of ions to form around the sharp tip. The ions are attracted to the opposite static charges on the record and neutralize them. It should never spark when used correctly. Slowly pulling the trigger ensures a relatively constant DC high voltage potential on the tip to cause the ions to be created. A short pulse won't do it (at least not very well). In fact, I would guess that a short pulse would probably generate an equal amount of positive and negative ions, that would just quickly cancel each other. The zerostat does the same thing, but it generates one polarity as the trigger is squeezed, and the other as it is released. So by pointing the zerostat at the record as the trigger is slowly squeezed, and away from the record as you release it, you get a net ion field applied to the record. The short pulses of the lighter are not going to do that. The transformer in the lighter means that you are never going to get a DC field from it.

But then, I'm no physicist.

Terry

Buy an anti static turntable mat. I use one andn it works good.

@ TerryS thank you for explaining why this won't work. I knew it was doing something because Sometimes I notice it sucks toilet paper towards the vinyl & changes the charge where two balloons oppose each other like magnets & then attract to each other on certain sides. Would a gas grill push button ignitor work?

@ Tube Radio I'm going to probably get something like that but once I get on a project it bugs me until I know why it won't work or how can I get I to work.

I use an anti-static mat as well as the Zerostat. The antistat mat will only remove static from the face down side of the album (the side contacting the mat). The zerostat can remove static from the playing surface. Static is generated by friction (motion). Pulling the record from the sleeve and the process of cleaning it generates the static. Even just lifting the record from a mat to flip it can generate a charge. I place the record side one up on the antistat mat, clean side one, then turn the record side one down on the antistat mat, clean side two, then zerostat side two. Flip the record and zerostat side one. Then play both sides without further cleaning or de-static processing.

Some people have reported damaging the electronics in the turntable by using the zerostat with the album on the turntable. They claim the HV field fried the electronics in the turntable. I have never experienced this in 30 years of using the zerostat, but user beware I guess.
Terry

Thanks I will keep that in mind & most surely pick one up.

A push button bbq grill use a peizo electric starter I'm taking it as that would be the same as what's in the zerostat right? Shown here: http://www.fovegraphy.com/IonizerE.php is what gave me the idea. But the zerostat gun has one wire going to the pin point & the other going to the metal trigger & the above post shows & tells only of the one wire going to the pin point & the ground has being disguarded.

oldscooliron said:

Thanks I will keep that in mind & most surely pick one up.

A push button bbq grill use a peizo electric starter I'm taking it as that would be the same as what's in the zerostat right? Shown here: http://www.fovegraphy.com/IonizerE.php is what gave me the idea. But the zerostat gun has one wire going to the pin point & the other going to the metal trigger & the above post shows & tells only of the one wire going to the pin point & the ground has being disguarded.

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I think the Zerostat also uses a piezo element to generate the charge. But I would imagine that the zerostat trigger is designed so that it can be squeezed slowly enough to cause the high voltage, without causing the arc, which in effect "shorts out" the HV. The lighter is designed to make a spark, so it may be tricky to get it to not spark.
As far as the ground wire, the approach on the zerostat makes sense to me. Attaching it to the metal trigger means the operator is in effect the ground, which is good because without a ground, I don't really understand how the thing could work. If the ground wire is disconnected, then I would think that a field with one polarity would set up around the tip, while the opposite polarity would set up somewhere around the internal ground. I'm not sure what would happen with the ion generation with this condition. Maybe it would still work, but not as well as the Zerostat? I don't know.
Good luck with it. Let us know how it works.
Terry

That's what I was thinking with the ground wire but in that link it shows no ground & made no sense to me. thanks I'll keep you guys updated.

I think the push button grill starter idea is similar to the Ionoclast method by Mapleshade. So I think there might be something to it.

bsabel said:

I think the push button grill starter idea is similar to the Ionoclast method by Mapleshade. So I think there might be something to it.

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I think it would need to have a rectifier after the transformer to make it have a DC field at the tip. I'm sure it could be done, but it might take a bit of knowledge that I don't have....

Terry

Hi guys first of all Happy Thanksgiving!

I tried my battery operated gun & a bbq grill ignitor & compared the results between the two. I will post the results after I explain somethings.

Here's what I came up with so far. (Note: I had to cut the marker tube on the lathe so it would fit the gun hole.)

1. I removed the light & it's both wires.

2. Ran the ground point from the trace of the board to the metal backstrap I made as a ground point. The gun actually worked without the ground point but just not as good.

3. I shortened the length of wire running to the pin point you aim at the record. I also tried thicker diameters of metal to see if it would work better then a pin point. All thickness did work but just not as good as a pin point.

4. I made a small tube to go over the pin point. It seems like this tube makes the gun less effective when it's on.

At this point I took some packing peanuts & rubbed one on an old album that's warped. I held the gun at various lengths away (1/4" to 6") with both the grill ignitor & my battery operated gun. They both work very much the same way moving the peanut slightly sometimes & at others knocking it completely off. I must say both worked much better closer to the record & peanut.

After 4 hours of trying different lengths away, different amounts of rubs, different patterns of movement & with & without the tube covering the pin point my battery operated gun seemed to do much better then the grill ignitor & it seemed to do much better without the tube on.

I did notice at times the peanut would not release but if I lightly pinged the album it would fall off & not stick afterwards. I also notice around the edge the album there was still static because the peanut stuck. After using the gun it would not.

After Thanksgiving I will post a video showing it in action. Any advise to make it better would be appericated!

Here's a couple questions for you Zerostat owners.

1. When squeezing your trigger do you get that snap like on a grill ignitor?

2. When releasing the trigger do you get another snap?

3. Does anyone have any pictures of the inside of a Zerostat?

I'm guessing here that on a grill ignitor that snap which is caused by a spring releasing a little metal piece inside the button when pushed in is what is needed to slam against the point that connects to the peizo inside to create a spark. Without that violent action the spark would not be created. Right? If that's the case then wouldn't the Zerostat gun need a equal reaction when releasing the trigger? Or is the trigger made to work smoothly with some type of spring setup? Because once the grill ignitor snaps it doesn't matter how slow you release it the metal piece is already back.

Below is my final pictures so far.



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Again, we are a bit out of my field of expertise, so I may be wrong about some of this,
The sharp point should be the way to go. I have read that the sharp point concentrates the high voltage field and causes more ions to form. I used to design high voltage power supplies and we always had to avoid sharp points for this reason (we didn't want ions).
I have a Zerostat and if used properly, it should not snap. The snap is an arc that shorts out the high voltage generated by the piezo. With the Zerostat you should slowly squeeze the trigger so that it does not snap. If it snaps, you are squeezing too fast. The same thing should happen on the release. I would think you would want to modify the trigger so it does not snap the piezo crystal.

Terry

@ TerryS the snap I was talking about on the grill igniter is caused from the 2 springs inside along with a little metal piece sitting a top of one. When you push the button in there's a certain point that the spring tension releases & let's the metal piece fly forward & smack the connection point to the peizo. What I was wondering is if the Zerostat had a tension build up in the trigger until a certain point & then released on squeeze & release of trigger just like a grill ignitor?

Here's a picture of what I'm saying.



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I don't know what's in a Zerostat, but if you squeeze and release the trigger slowly, it doesn't snap. If you squeeze it too fast, it will make a snapping or arcing noise, but not like a mechanical snap like you describe. I think it is like you said, that the lighter causes a sharp strike on the piezo to get a good spark. Not what you want with the Zerostat.
I searched a bit on the web and never managed to find a picture of the insides of a Zerostat.

Terry

Main reason the Zerostat works as well as it does is because it releases both positive and negative ions as you squeeze and release the trigger.

@ TerryS yeah I search too & no luck here.

@ Ed in tx I know if I can see the insides of one I can make something work! I'm a machinist & have the tools/machines do copy the setup if I find how it operates mechanically.

oldscooliron said:

@ Ed in tx I know if I can see the insides of one I can make something work! I'm a machinist & have the tools/machines do copy the setup if I find how it operates mechanically.

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My old one comes apart pretty easily. Here's a picture. It's really very simple. Good luck!

Is that black tube thing the snake oil reservoir? I kid, I kid,

Thanks a Bunch Ed! The picture is very helpful. I just busted my grill igniter apart & see there's a tiny ceramic round bar inside which has a metal bar on one side & is covered all over with sticky stuff. When you squeeze the trigger does the nut at the bottom of the gun move downward or does it stay put?

oldscooliron said:

Thanks a Bunch Ed! The picture is very helpful. I just busted my grill igniter apart & see there's a tiny ceramic round bar inside which has a metal bar on one side & is covered all over with sticky stuff. When you squeeze the trigger does the nut at the bottom of the gun move downward or does it stay put?

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It stays put. It's actually a screw that's tightened against the bottom of the Piezo element, and locked with the nut you can see. The trigger pivots so it puts pressure and bends the element to generate voltage, release and polarity reverses.