Belt + Idler Drive TT

This one is interesting - a belt to isolate the idler wheel from the motor. Kenwood PC-400U.

http://www.onelouderresto.com/for-sale/kenwood-pc-400u-turntable/

A new business locally (no affiliation). I wish him the best of luck, he appears to be doing things right. Beautiful photos.

VERY nice, seldom-seen TT, apparently a treasure that is pretty much off-the-radar! :thmbsp: (At least, it was until someone posted it on AK, where thousands of TT-buyers can learn about it... )

Kenwood also made another lower-model hybrid type TT, the KP-350: http://www.vinylengine.com/library/kenwood/pc-350.shtml

Some more info on the Kenwood KP-400 here: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=200736
Maybe AKer/owner mrgates3 will pop in and tell us more about it?

Another discussion of it is here:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/anal...-garrard-301-thorens-td124-hybridmonster.html

A lot of pics of one here: http://www.vinylengine.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=28325
More info here: http://translate.google.com/transla...o-heritage.jp/TRIO-KENWOOD/player/pc-400.html

Apparently, when new this TT sold for more than 2.5 times the price of the Garrard 401, and has a much larger motor and idler wheel (the latter not necessarily a good thing, but probably is in this case).

Apparently, there was am equivalent domestic (Japan market) model, the KENWOOD TRIO KP-5021 . Apparently AKer dnorth52 owns one of these: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=256231

There was also a domestic KENWOOD TRIO KP-4021 . It seems probable that this is the equivalent of the KP-350; however, the "4" in the numbering scheme MAY mean that this is actually the equivalent of the PC-400U, and the 5021 is actually a better model solely for the domestic market. It wouldn't be the first time a Japanese company did something like that. But in the absence of more information and detailed research, and since there appear to be only two domestic models and two overseas models, I'll bet they are direct (re-badged) equivalents. Here is the KP-4021:
http://translate.google.com/transla...-heritage.jp/TRIO-KENWOOD/player/kp-4021.html


Also in that big thread linked to above is a mention of a similar Denon TT, the DENON/COLUMBIA 4025. There is a picture of the Denon here: http://audio-database.com/DENON-COLUMBIA/player/4025-e.html

The THORENS TD124 is also a hybrid belt+idler design, with a small, thick belt to isolate the motor from the idler wheel. This is probably the most famous such hybrid design.

:scratch2:... Dang it all! Just as I'm trying to cull some of my turntable stacks, suddenly there are 2-3 more models I want to ADD! It never ends... sigh... Seriously, these could be great-performing TTs, esp. if remounted in massive plinths as people do with the Garrard, Thorens, Lenco, etc... idler-wheel TTs. From the looks of these, they might actually be better than some of these more famous models, although the introduction of a belt to an idler drive system is always a compromise. Still, at least worth investigating! I think I'll ask my Japan-market "bird-dogger" to start looking for these! Thanks!

That does look like the guy is "doing a lot of things right" for his start-up business. I wish him luck. Maybe he'd like to become an AK sponsor? Seems like a good match, for his line of business! (But maybe he's still too new/small at this stage?)

I responded to his CL ad, nothin' yet...

The changer in my 1956 Admiral console record player is an idler driven by a belt. (for which I cannot find a new belt)

Brett a said:

The changer in my 1956 Admiral console record player is an idler driven by a belt. (for which I cannot find a new belt)

Click to expand...

What size do you need? :scratch2:

Balifly said:

What size do you need? :scratch2:

Click to expand...

I'd have to dig it out and have another look. It's smaller in diameter than the rubber band that they put on fresh broccoli, and maybe twice as wide.

Lemmie go see...

Brett a said:

I'd have to dig it out and have another look. It's smaller in diameter than the rubber band that they put on fresh broccoli, and maybe twice as wide.

Lemmie go see...

Click to expand...

Mebbie the asparagus rubber band will fit?

Hey, those asparagus bands can come in handy!

FWIW, a rather funky Garrard 990B passed through here last year with a hybrid belt/idler drive...

Hello fellow AK'ers, sorry to resurrect an oldish thread, but I was just browsing through the forums on this lazy rainy Saturday and found this discussion of both my turntable and new "business" (really just an extension of my beloved hobby, thankfully pays a few bills). Thanks so much for the kind words about both the site and the turntable! It has been a long, crazy, stressful year getting here, and it'd be great to talk about both that and the lovely Kenwood, but I feel it's inappropriate to do in the TT forums. Maybe a mod can move this to Dollars and Sense or wherever it's OK?

And there was a professional caliber Belt-Idler drive turntable made in the USA, the redoubtable Russco BID. Excellent table it is, but the Thorens is still the best of the breed here. And the TDW-224 changer version is also Belt-Idler drive to boot. And fabulously expensive new.

You can add the Thorens TD 111 to the list of belt + idler drive tables. Its samilar to the 124 but is a single speed deck.

I just brought home another belt-driven idler wheel hybrid turntable. It's apparently a very early Micro (Seiki). I didn't realize they made a hybrid drive TT, until I stumbled across this one. I'll post about it separately, later, but thought I'd mention it here, since it is another hybrid.

Le greque - If you'd like to discuss your business in the Dollars & Sense forum, why not start a separate thread there? This one is already sort-of split between hybrid TTs and your business; you'd probably get more notice and get more discussion going in a new and "dedicated" thread of your own. (Just a suggestion.)

Arkay said:

I just brought home another belt-driven idler wheel hybrid turntable. It's apparently a very early Micro (Seiki). I didn't realize they made a hybrid drive TT, until I stumbled across this one.

Click to expand...

Very interesting Arkay.. Looking forward to the story/ pics.

That's what I think I will do Arkay. And please, pics and info on that Micro, these oddball finds are some of my favorite to hear about.

Yes, keep us posted about that Micro/Seiki. Interesting tables they made and well engineered.

Hello to Audiokarma,

this is my first one here. I want to inform you, that I am doing the job on documenting Belt & Idler Combinated Drive for some years now. There is an until yet maintained list available in the internet including a discussion thread around. You may look it up here:

http://www.hifi-forum.de/index.php?action=browseT&forum_id=26&thread=11082&postID=139#139

It's German languaged, of course, however, many modern browsers have translation programs built in.

You may find out, that they recently blocked me, right when working on a new list (the actual one contains some mistakes, sorry).

I remember Nigel Pearson from Garrard telling me to move to international forums because topics might be from more than regional interest. However, I want to ask if it's welcome, first.

I am a fan on the PE (Perpetuum Ebner) combinated drive (Kombinationsantrieb in German) myself, however, have been able to list all Thorens' with this drive and as a nick to the traditionally PE competeting Dual's I also list the idler-to-idler drives founded by Dual. I also started up listing the US made belt-to-belt VPI drive as "combination drive" but may need some community help in this topic.

The first belt & Idler's I was able to document were the Jobo's from the Netherlands of 1949. From this topic I may tell that Joop de Boer was the founder of this idea. As I am not able to understand Dutch language I may need some community help on this point.

The first Direct Drive (directly motor to platter, no gear, no belt, no idler) switchable 33 / 78 I was able to document were made by Wumo / Germany around 1947. There were directly driven record cutting machines in advance, of course.

I was not yet able to find out, who fonded the idler drive, however, this was known in Germany in 1947 and it was known as an American product. I also was not yet able to find out who founded the belt drive.

Except this, I am a fan on vintage tube gear including vintage HiFi, vintage radios and vintage measuring instruments. This time I am on restoring a Harman Kardon A 700 for me. May look it up here:

http://www.dampfradioforum.de/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=11941&start=15

so well, so right, wanna see, what comes back for startup.

http://www.thomas-schick.com/ETF05.htm


I've got an Orpheus Silex TT, made in Melbourne, Australia back in the late 50s/early 60s. Mine is presently stripped down for the purpose of replinthing but the picture on the Schick site (2/3 of the way down) demonstrates that they have the potential to perform with the best.

Garrard had isolation belts way back in the 50s