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Cleaning 78s with machine oil and vinegar.

Brett a

Brett a

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Hi all.

I was spending a little quality time with my shellacs (hey, if you can vinyls, i can say shellacs) during a recent stay-at-home vacation and i came across this website which stated the following:


The following cleaning procedure comes from The Gramophone Handbook by Percy Wilson (1957).

• Make a mixture of 2 parts white vinegar and 1 part light machine oil such as 3-in-1.
• Shake mixture to an emulsion.
• Pour about 10 ml in a ring around the playing surface and work it into the grooves until no liquid remains on the surface. Use a piece of lint free cloth for this.
• Leave for one hour at least.
• Using washing up liquid, make a firm lather and wash the disc thoroughly with it.
• Rinse thoroughly with clean tepid water. Try not to soak the label.
• If necessary, wash and rinse again until all traces of residue are removed.
• Blot dry with clean cloth or kitchen towel.
• Put into record rack or prop vertically for at least 24 hours before playing. It takes this time for the shellac to harden again after being wet.
• Record may need playing with an old stylus, brushing off the muck collected from the grooves, before completely clean.
Click to expand...

I had just picked up a twenty-five cent 10" of a tune entitled "There Ought to be a Society for the Prevention on Cruelty of Poor Unfortunate Lovers Like Me" (I sh*t you not) backed with "They Can't Make a Lady Out of Me". And i just had to get it cleaned up.

I do know the cardinal rule of cleaning 78s: no alcohol. My usual method has been the standard warm soapy water and a fresh natural bristle paint brush.

But with this one, I thought I'd try the oil and vinegar method. And boy was I surprised at how well it did! This link will stream a 14 second sound sample of the before and after (after soap and water, then after oil and vinegar)

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16387095/cleaning sample.mp3

I think this method works amazingly well and am surprised more people don't recommend it.

Anyone else here try this oil and vinegar method?
 
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Many thanks for sharing your experience. I wasn´t aware of this cleaning method and hope to be able to try it at some point.
 
so... Italian dressing should work fine in a pinch.
and, yes, shellac is soluble in alcohol.
Interestingly, shellac is the resinous exudate of a bug (I am not sure if it is a true bug or an insect) called Lacca.
 
Wow, that is quite a difference.

I've read that simply playing a record after cleaning is enough to scrape away detritus that's been loosened by the fluid. I wonder if this effect isn't partly responsible for the improvement.

Regardless, the noise reduction is substantial. In the 2nd portion one can clearly hear some percusion that is otherwise completely obscured by noise.
 
If you play the file with audacity, you can SEE the improvement. Almost makes me want to pick up the ones I'm finding at SA and GW.
 
Jonny Ramone said:
If you play the file with audacity, you can SEE the improvement.
Click to expand...
It's true. Here's a screen-shot of the sample:
attachment.php
 
Interesting. I'm a little confused about the wording: "work it into the grooves until no liquid remains on the surface". That doesn't mean the liquid is absorbed, does it?

I use VWR Labtone as a cleaning agent along with a vacuum RCM. I think I might take a junk 78, clean it with my normal method, test, then clean again with the vinegar/oil mixture and see if it pulls out any more dirt.

I'm concerned about leaving the disc wet that long. I'm also not sure what if any effects either the oil or the vinegar has on shellac. I doubt I'll use this method on my "good" 78's.
 
DougMac said:
Interesting. I'm a little confused about the wording: "work it into the grooves until no liquid remains on the surface". That doesn't mean the liquid is absorbed, does it?
Click to expand...

I think what is meant by working the fluid into the grooves, is that when you pour it onto the shellac, it sits beaded up like you'd expect most liquids would do. I worked the fluid into the grooves with a fresh cotton pad that i buy at the drugstore for such projects.

I'm pretty sure shellac is non-absorbent. that's why it was used a a wood sealer for all those decades. (Isn't polyurethane it's modern replacement in the furniture and finish carpentry world?)

That said, the same website I got this method from cautioned against playing them wet due to concerns that the shellac would be softened(?)

I dunno. I can say it really improved not only the noise level of the 78s I did, but also the level of detail in the recordings. I think if there was damage, it would show up in the percussion instruments and finer timbres of the voice, etc.

DougMac said:
I think I might take a junk 78, clean it with my normal method, test, then clean again with the vinegar/oil mixture and see if it pulls out any more dirt.
Click to expand...
I found the vinegar and oil mixture lifted a lot more dirt off the surface. It was quite visible on the cotton pads I was using.

I'd be interested to hear back if you do end up trying this.

DougMac said:
I'm concerned about leaving the disc wet that long. I'm also not sure what if any effects either the oil or the vinegar has on shellac. I doubt I'll use this method on my "good" 78's.
Click to expand...

It's certainly good to be cautions. We are really only temporary stewards of these artifacts after all.
 
Oil is a good solvent for oil/fat-based contaminants, things like fingerprint residues. Vinegar contains acetic acid, and is a great all-around solvent/cleaner for many things. The combination will dissolve a wide variety of contaminants. You could clean your kitchen with that stuff, as long as you managed to get the oil off afterward, which requires a bit of dish detergent -- what the instructions above call "washing up liquid" (the British term for it).

I try to use such old-fashioned materials (also including borax, lemon juice, and baking soda) for most cleaning around the house, to avoid harsh chemicals and lessen the burdens on my liver. A lot of these basic things that our grandparents or great-grandparents used work REALLY well! Plain baking soda puts a better shine on my stainless-steel sink than commercial stuff like Comet or AXE or CIF (formerly JIF) do! :yes: Borax makes anything you use on cloth (and other things) clean much better! The oil in plain Mayonnaise, after a soaking period, works almost as well as Goo-gone, to remove label or tape adhesive from bottles, etc...

I don't think shellac will dissolve in either oil or (weak) acetic acid, so it is probably safe for shellac records. Since these are not very concentrated chemicals, they need a little time to work; hence the soaking time. The biggest risk would be to the older records that had a cardboard-like innermost layer. Little tiny cracks will have developed in the outer coatings on these, and the liquid will wick down through those cracks, and soak into that center paper/cardboard stuff, which will then lose its integrity. Result? One ruined disk! So just make sure you are using it on pure shellac-type records, and not the earlier "sandwich" type records, and it should be okay.

Thanks for the post - worth some careful experimentation! I'm gradually setting up a new (to me) 78/mono system (around a Garrard 4HF TT), so this will be useful for getting the most out of my (relatively few) 78s on that! :thmbsp:
 
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Cool, I have a semi-operational Garrard RC80M with a GE VR-II cartridge that will someday go into service for vintage mono - as soon as I get around to restoring it!
 
Brett a said:
. . . I'm pretty sure shellac is non-absorbent. that's why it was used a a wood sealer for all those decades. . . .
Click to expand...

Shellac does absorb moisture. Furniture finished with it turns black over the years. I have only used shellac as an undercoat for polyurethane so I have never used it as a top coat. The fact that it takes years for shellac to turn black says to me that it doesn't absorb moisture quickly. But I still wouldn't use a water based cleaner on shellac records. And maybe I'm wrong about a quick wash.
 
Shellac doesn't really darken over time. Most of the stuff finished with shellac was done with toner in a very dark finish, so quite likely it was that dark to begin with. Oil based finishes like lacquers and varnishes will darken over time though, so maybe thats what you're thinking of.
 
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