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My take on psvane 12ax7 and 12at7. Thanks poppachubby.

--@H@B-->

Opinionated.
Poppachubby's recent thread about these tubes from grant audio caught my eye. Tube rolling is one of those things you can get caught up in and drive yourself mad with. There is always something to read about the process, and always something new to try. As you very well know it can get expensive when NOS tubes are involved.

My Conrad johnson pv7 was completely rebuilt over the summer. I populated the pre with telefunken smooth plates that i had collected over the years.

I also have a Van alstine 550 ex power amp that uses 2 12at7 that drive a mosfet output. I put 2 rca blackplates here, and liked the results.

My only real niggle with this setup was soundstaging could have been better, and i wasnt sure just how much time was on the telefunkens. Could i do better?

After seeing poppachubby's review of these chinese made tubes, and how they might best NOS varieties, i though i might take a chance. The price works out to about 32.50 a tube. They are sold in matched pairs, so it put me out about 300 bucks. Not cheap but considering what matched telefunkens go for, well you get the picture.

As of right now i have about 5 hours on them. They truly do sound wonderful right out of the box. They do everything very well top to bottom. I did note however a tad bit of congestion around the mid-bass region which seems to be improving.

Soundstaging is exceptional. especially front to back. They improved pinpointing markedly. Little bells, or placement of players is so good its kinda spooky. Air and detail is excellent. These things i might add are telefunkens strong points. And i only have 5 hours on them!

What i like about tele's is how they are in regard to tonality. They have a sort of dryness in the mid bass that helps my synergy with components in my system. My Dali speakers have a bump in the mid bass and this helps. These psvanes tubes i think are even flatter in response than the teles and might explain why im getting a bit of bloat in my mid bass. Again though i think its improving. Vocals are incredible!!!!! They lose no ground to any NOS variety here!!!

The top end is where the psvanes are exciting. Clear, no edge at all but detailed like you wouldnt believe. Bass is tight and extended, very nice.

i have alot of time to go before they are considered to be broken in. the idea that these might get better kinda confounds me. If they stay the same as they are i can live with these, they are not perfect but they are new. I know how many hours are on them. its just it wont take much to make these better than the teles in every way. Thats what blows my mind.


I will open new threads as they break in if anyone is interested.

My initial excitement aside, i have quite a few small signal tubes of good quality and i am very stoked by these.
 
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Know what? Im gonna go out on a limb and say these are way better than i have been willing to admit.

I put in the gratefull deads american beauty album, i have the hdcd version because i have a cary 303-100 cd hdcd player, and i have to say it sounds so much more refined. Absolutely beautiful.

Right now i am spinning Willie nelsons teatro album, also hdcd, and the sound is so much better than what i have been used to.

In short i cant recommend these enough.
 
Patience, patience...

The suites I bought (12AX7, 12AU7, 12AT7 and an EL84 pair have from twenty to sixty hours on three separate systems. Can't play music all the time. Must sleep occasionally.

This has been a revelatory purchase for me. I am new to the world of tubes but have embraced them. I just don't have the time or moo-la necessary to indulge in the search for the 'perfect' NOS and then try to get matched anything.

The longest running rig, a Transcendent GG Preamp>Transcendent T16 OTL fed by various sources sounds like a totally new system! The GG uses a trio of 12AU7s, the OTL uses a pair of all three drivers. Everybody's happy! There is a Bob Latino ST-70 in my "lab" using three 12AU7s and a quad of Genalex KT88s that is powering some stock DCM TimeWindows and they have never sounded this good in all the years I have owned them. I picked up those puppies, new, in 1980 and they can still astonish. In all cases, sound-stage width, depth, openness, transparency and detail are coming through more and more. Bass is settling down and becoming more refined, deeper and cleaner. At first I was worried because it wasn't there and then...

I have, of late, been building kit for friends who love the sound of tubes but lack the skills necessary to craft their own or the funding to buy boutique gear. I'm switching to this line of drivers as the 'stock' that will come with the completed gear.

What a neat find!
 
Sorry, I just can't see paying so much for new tubes, when I have so many vintage tubes. No.

Funny, but normally i would agree. I have quite a few stars in my stable and i am not sure why i even decided to buys these. I will say that i am really glad i did.

If they actually do get better with break in then i am buying more and stashing them.
 
I am awaiting for delivery of my pair of 12AX7 for my McIntosh C2300. I will most likely use them in my line stage. I am using Genalax Gold Lions in the line stage now and will move those to the MM phono stage. I have Telefunken ribs in my MC phono stage.
 
About 25 hours in and everything is pretty stable. No big changes, which says to me they are probably consistently manufactured.

I'm pretty happy with these. Powerful, smooth, extended, clear, good vocals. Cant really ask for more.
 
I've got 2 sets on order - one will go into the Mac C220 and the other into the Pro-Ject Tube Box II SE. I will post results once I've had a chance to really sit down and listen.

jblnut
 
and the other into the Pro-Ject Tube Box II SE. jblnut


I bet you will fall right out of your seat. You may croak if you are rolling from the stock tubes.


miner said:
I will most likely use them in my line stage.

My opinion is to use something sweeter in your line stage and use these in your phono stage. The accuracy and neutrality should really open up your vinyl.
 
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Poppachubby's recent thread about these tubes from grant audio caught my eye.


Glad you're happy. Let me say that your excitement is infectious, and flies off the page.

I know exactly how you feel. It seems too early at 5 hours to declare anything grand...but we know better, don't we? :yes:

I have long passed the burn in mark and have no issues to speak of. I think it's fair to say that you may want to reflect on your gear if you are experiencing a hump. Mine are flat as flat can be.

Enjoy!
 
You guys make me want to go tube, something, anything! I have Fortes, that's the only excuse I need! I've only just discovered a good SS receiver, do I have to regear already?
 
You guys make me want to go tube, something, anything! I have Fortes, that's the only excuse I need! I've only just discovered a good SS receiver, do I have to regear already?


A good friend has been using Forte's and tubes for about 20 years - it's a match made in heaven. He's using the classic Dynaco ST70 and couldn't be happier. I've logged a lot of hours over there and I can tell you it works - well!

jblnut
 
I bet you will fall right out of your seat. You may croak if you are rolling from the stock tubes.




I am still using the stock tubes in both units. Many have said the C220 isn't very sensitive to tube rolling so I have tempered expectations there. But by most accounts the Tube Box will really open up with better valves. We shall see...

:-)

jblnut
 
Glad you're happy. Let me say that your excitement is infectious, and flies off the page.

I know exactly how you feel. It seems too early at 5 hours to declare anything grand...but we know better, don't we? :yes:

I have long passed the burn in mark and have no issues to speak of. I think it's fair to say that you may want to reflect on your gear if you are experiencing a hump. Mine are flat as flat can be.

Enjoy!

I have about 35 hours on them as i write. They are pretty much all i could ask for really.

I should clarify that my speakers do have a mildly pronounced mid-bass hump. Its not unusual, and it helps in this case to describe the characteristics of the psvanes.

Telefunkens are sometimes describes as bright, when in reality they are actually a bit lean in the midrange. Its why they xound so good in a fender amplifier. In a overly warm setup a tele is the way to go.

The psvanes on the other hand are strong across the frequency range. Poppachubby saying they are a bit to clean is on the money with what i am seeing. However, i am digging this linearity because my system is more towards the warm side. I am getting detail like you wouldnt believe.

I would say they are a match made in heaven for my Conrad johnson preamp.

I have been playing with preamp tubes for a long time, and i am glad to find something like this.
 
I should clarify that my speakers do have a mildly pronounced mid-bass hump. Its not unusual, and it helps in this case to describe the characteristics of the psvanes.

.

I have a pair of Mission 707 which have a low mid hump. They are wildly synergistic with my tube gear, so I ignored it. Those now reside in my HT system as mains, wonderfully musical speakers. I listen to them quite a bit thanks to my Squeezebox.

Anyhow, my system is now EXACTLY as I planned it. It took alot of careful planning, but it's perfect for my ears.

I would suggest that you continue past your current speakers and find something flat. It will be worth the trouble. Considering your love of tubes, full range is a great way to go.

All I worry about, or talk about now is music. It's a wonderful feeling. Speaking of which, the Psvanes really light up female vocals don't they?!? I am spinning Joni Mitchell's Mingus, it's incredibly open yet her voice penetrates and localises so effectively.

I could go on and on....
 
I have Dali grand coupes which are a two way stand mount speaker. They actually play really big and dig pretty deep for a standmount. I brought up the midbass hump like it was a problem but it more contributes to them playing bigger than they really are is all. Since i made that comment about congestion, i havent really noticed it again.

They excel at vocals no matter what i drive them with, but with this setup they are superb. Put in some cowboy junkies or some sophie von otter, and you have some vocal excitement.

The next time i get speakers i want to try to get some Harbeth 40.1's, but for now I dont think i could do better than the dalis for under 3 grand
 
The next time i get speakers i want to try to get some Harbeth 40.1's, but for now I dont think i could do better than the dalis for under 3 grand

This is exactly the sentiment which I love to challenge. Of course, only for tube lovers.

Your Dali's are a wonderful speaker, no doubt about it. I also understand that you are fully happy with them but please, try to get out and listen to some full range.

Just this week, my tube tech came over to hear the Psvanes. He has NOS Teles in an identical pre. He has been considering LINN or Castle speakers lately to replace his aging KEF. He was so floored by my system, specifically the speakers that he is now pursuing a pair from Planet10hifi.

For 1/3rd the price, full rangers take their rightful place in a tube system and show the listener the full potential of what's upstream.

I don't want to get preachy, and I will now drop the topic. When i think about your joy from Psvane tubes, I have to only imagine what full range speakers could do for you. Keep in mind that I have auditioned a wide range of upper crust speakers.

I have a small case of verbal diarrhea tonight...
 
This is exactly the sentiment which I love to challenge. Of course, only for tube lovers.

Your Dali's are a wonderful speaker, no doubt about it. I also understand that you are fully happy with them but please, try to get out and listen to some full range.

Just this week, my tube tech came over to hear the Psvanes. He has NOS Teles in an identical pre. He has been considering LINN or Castle speakers lately to replace his aging KEF. He was so floored by my system, specifically the speakers that he is now pursuing a pair from Planet10hifi.

For 1/3rd the price, full rangers take their rightful place in a tube system and show the listener the full potential of what's upstream.

I don't want to get preachy, and I will now drop the topic. When i think about your joy from Psvane tubes, I have to only imagine what full range speakers could do for you. Keep in mind that I have auditioned a wide range of upper crust speakers.

I have a small case of verbal diarrhea tonight...

Well there is a difference between sound quality and frequency response.

I own full range speakers but they cant compare to the quality of my standmounts. The only way im gonna replace these is with something better.

I'm not missing enough of that bottom octave for it to be an issue. Now my friend has legacy audio focus speakers and they are full range, but i still like they quality of my Dalis better.

Waiting for my Harbeths...:yes:
 
Well there is a difference between sound quality and frequency response.

I own full range speakers but they cant compare to the quality of my standmounts. The only way im gonna replace these is with something better.

I'm not missing enough of that bottom octave for it to be an issue. Now my friend has legacy audio focus speakers and they are full range, but i still like they quality of my Dalis better.

Waiting for my Harbeths...:yes:

No, that's great! I am more than happy to hear you say that you have experimented with them, but don't care for it. Better than not at all.

Dali are a fantastic company. I would love to hear a pair in my rig. It's nice to know that they are synergistic with tube gear. My friend and I had our heads blown by the Mentor Menuet. We couldn't believe there was no sub in the chain. Clearly Dali know what they are doing.

Compatibility is the name of the game with tubes and speakers. I have heard $5K Audio Physics which sounded like rubbish compared to my lowly Mission 707's.

BTW, I would love if you could list the contents of your main rig. Mine is mostly viewable in my sig. I am mostly for vinyl but I also use a Yamaha CDC 575 as a transport to a Teradak NOS Valab. My Golden Tube uses a pair of NOS Sylvania 6SN7 chrome domes, and 6 Tung Sol 6L6 GC-STR (highly recommended as a more affordable Winged C). My horns contain enABLEd Fostex FE126eN. Blah, blah, blah....

You?
 
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