New arrival - Shuguang I-series integrated mini tube amp - everyone can afford them

GrantFidelity

Active Member
If the Shuguang 845T super monoblocks are too big for your house, too big for your wallet and too heavy for your back, these mini tube amps will fit all :)

Newly released to North America by Grant Fidelity, sub-$800, free shipping to all in North America (surcharge applies to Hawaii and Alaska).

Shuguang I-12 EL84 tube amp w/ headphone output and MP3 input

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Details link here: http://grantfidelity.com/site/shuguang_I12_integrated_tube_amp_headphone_amp

Shuguang I-25 EL34 integrated tube amp w/ MP3 input, loaded with Treasure tubes

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Details link here: http://grantfidelity.com/site/shuguang_I25_tube_amp
 
I will await the official Ian Grant review....LOL. I looks really good to me and I am sooooo tempted to go this route. Just unsure if this amp will fit the bill for what I am looking for. I also however wonder if it is I-pod compatible using the I-pod's USB connection? Also would it pair well with the Dac 09 as a way of getting more inputs. For that matter will it work well with a P 307? speakers would most likely be either Klipsch Heresy or fortes.
Awaiting your impressions since I cant do a home demo from Georgia.
 
I've only got about 2 hours on the EL84 (I-12) after about 20 minutes I heard it open up. I am quite surprised by the sound and power already, I can fill my (19w x27 x8) room to loud rock level with my tiny 84DB GF LS3/5A speakers, I have heard enough new tubes amp to now that I am at best only hearing about 80% of what this amp can do after around 100 hours, then there is the Pavanes to roll in which I am sure will take it to a whole new level.

I guess my most relevant statement on them was I still had a smile on my face after almost crying watching the watching the Pavane 845-T monoblocks go out the doors, not of course the same, but these little amps are great sounding.

I had maybe 50 hours on the I-25 (EL34) amp before Rachel sold it, it too was a wonderful sounding amp, that meatier midrange EL34 sound, I'd lean towards the I-12 for your Klipsch's if you don't need lots of power.

Oh a friend brought over his Scott 22 EL84 (I think, it is the sought after one) which is in perfect condition with expesive tubes, it of course sounds great being 50 years old, but I think the Shuguang will be better after a few hundred hours.

Cheers,
ian
 
I-12

I just got one of these, and will try to post some impressions soon. I am still breaking it in, and also braking in a pair of GF LS3/5As. If memory serves, the least efficient Klipsch is 91Db efficient, so at least 4 times as loud as the LS3/5As. Based on that, the I-12 should be loud enough to be uncomfortable in a medium-size toom.
 
I now have about 25 hours on the tubes, that would make it about 65 hours on the rest of the amp. Using an old CPD as a transport through the TubeDAC-09 works nicely with the I-12. 89Db Definitive Technology oldies make Dark Side of the Moon sound very loud at 75% power in my 14x14X9 carpeted BR. No clipping or distortion noted. Pink Floyd never sounded better to my ears.
At this level of burn in the I-12 sounds better to me than the I-25 with about 22 hours on the whole thing. Frequency range is more extended than the I-25, more dynamic as well at this point.
 
So which one sounds best to you Pen Name?? I'm going to jump on one soon, don't think about the Watts I already worked that out...
 
So which one sounds best to you Pen Name?? I'm going to jump on one soon, don't think about the Watts I already worked that out...

I am afraid I only have a cop-out answer: it depends... on my mood, on the album, on the speakers I have connected for a given CD. Both amps are very musical, great soundstage, imaging, air, dynamics.
These are my first tube amps, so I can only compare them to solid state and each other. If I had to describe the sound:
The I-12 sounds like the general descriptions of EL84 tubes, and the I-25 sounds like the general descriptions of EL34 sound.
If I may make an analogy: The EL34 sounds more like German baroque, e.g. Pachelbel. The EL84 reminds me of Italian baroque, e.g. Vivaldi. The I-25 is more restrained and controlled, the I-12 more exuberant but perhaps less profound.
If I had to pick only one I would pick the I-12 - even though the I-25 comes with $280 of black bottle EL34s, the I-12 can be upgraded to black bottle EL84s for $160. I have not done that yet, so I think the I-12 can sound better than it already does. EL84s are a lot cheaper to replace than EL34s.
In addition, the I-12 has a headphone jack driven by the tubes, and it sounds sweet. The I-25 does not have that. So in my view the I-12 is a better value at $575 than the I-25 at $785, even though the I-25 comes with $240 worth of output tubes, and the I-12 with about $40 of output tubes.
To my ears the difference in volume produced by the two amps is minimal, as you would expect with a mere doubling in output watts. The I-25 seems to have marginally better bass control, but lacks the sparkling highs of the I-12.
I am quite addicted to each amp.
I hope this helps.
 
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Tonight I listened to Vivaldi string concertoes on the I-25, and in addition to the fabulous soundstage, imaging and air, there was an astounding amount of resolution and nuance, and I thought: it would be stupid to buy anything other than the I-25.
BTW - it seems to take about an hour of warm-up before these amps sound their best, after break-in.
I find that my system with LS3/5As sounds better than the LS3/5As sounded with the new Shuguang 300B amp in the GF showroom. That has probably more to do with the acoustics in my room and the quietness of living out of town compared to the noise in the GF showroom, and less with the amp - but I think it is also an indicator of how good these amps are.
 
Liking the I-25 Better Now?

Hi Pen Name!
It seemed you were kind of preferring the I-12 in a previous post. Have any new impressions to share? I am getting ready to order one of these and reviews are proving hard to come by because they are so new! I don't have the most efficent speakers in the world so was leaning towards the I-25. My ears are so burned out on the shrill from SS and digital stuff the "sparkle" you described with the I-12 almost scares me. ;) I do love a strong mid range and good bass, so again, leaning towards the I-25. Just want to make the right decision. :) Thanks!
 
Hi Pen Name!
It seemed you were kind of preferring the I-12 in a previous post. Have any new impressions to share? I am getting ready to order one of these and reviews are proving hard to come by because they are so new! I don't have the most efficent speakers in the world so was leaning towards the I-25. My ears are so burned out on the shrill from SS and digital stuff the "sparkle" you described with the I-12 almost scares me. ;) I do love a strong mid range and good bass, so again, leaning towards the I-25. Just want to make the right decision. :) Thanks!

My initial impressions were based on the sound before burn in. The black bottles in the I-25 have become very sweet.
Based on your descriptions of your preferences, you may prefer the I-25.
The treble on the I-12 is never harsh or shrill. It is brilliant and grain-free.
The I-12 may sound even more refined with the Psvane tubes.
If you do not yet have a GF TubeDAC-09: it is a wonderful little device that will allow you to plug in 5 sources, and a choice of Tube or SS out to the single RCA input if the I-12 and I-25.
I was in a similar position as you were with these amps - so I decided to get both, for less $$ than 1 amp anywhere else. Each of them is a joy to listen to, and I can hardly peel myself away from them.
 
Since no reviews of these amps have been posted at the website, I have tried to write something more complete that may assist people contemplating one of these units to be a bit more informed in their decisions.
Here are a bunch of caveats:
1. I am not an audiophile – but I have read enough crap on the internet to be able to sound like one. So don’t trust my judgement or my words.:bs:
2. My room, my associated equipment, my ears. Not much hi-end here. Room is 14x14x9 carpeted BR with a bunch of junk in it. Current equipment: Sources: Sony CPD CE245 and Pioneer HDD/DVD recorderDVR-460H (both used as transport only); Motorola Satellite receiver routed through Pioneer. DAC: GF TubeDAC-09 (Straight DAC); GF TubeDAC-09 (preamp); Amplifiers: Shuguang I-12; Shuguang I-25; Harman Kardon 3490 (used as power amp). Speakers: Definitive Technology DR-7 floorstanders; GF LS3/5A. Interconnects: various generic RCA (and 1 GF brand), generic USB, generic optical and digital audio. Speaker wire: 1 GF, 1 generic ‘Mammoth super flex oxygen free copper’. Beauty eh!? Cut to about 7’ long. Power cords: GF power cords for the Schuguangs and the DAC, original cords for everything else. Everything plugged into a GF power conditioner. My ears: pretty ancient, can’t hear treble like I used to...
3. Preferences: The way I like my music may not be the way you like yours. How do you like your steak prepared?
4. And to add to the complexity: I am not a skilled listener; I am in the beginning phases of training my ears and my brain. This limits what I am able to hear, and flaws that may be obvious to others may not be noticed by me.
I have been unable to discern differences in sound between GF interconnects and the cheap generics. The GFs look much better, though.
I have been unable to discern audible differences between the butch GF power cord and the original power cord supplied with the DAC. I have not tried swapping GF and stock power cords on the Amps.
I have been unable to discern audible differences between the GF and Mammoth speaker cables.
HK 3490 receiver vs. Shuguang Tube amps: the HK benefitted significantly from using a TubeDAC-09 as preamp, bypassing the built-in HK preamp. A veil was lifted. From what I read on the ‘net, this should be audio nirvana: the sweetness of a tube preamp with the low distortion, dynamics, power and bass control of 120 WPC SS power. No nirvana noted: the HK is able to play loud with power to spare, but there is a lack of refinement in comparison to the tube amps. The HK adds artefacts to the sound. The HK lacks refinement and precision. The HK makes an absolute mess of classical and baroque music. On the plus side: the HK runs cool and quiet. My younger son prefers the HK to the tube amps, because the HK is louder.
I-12 vs. I-25. The amps share their looks, the single RCA inputs, and the built-in MP3 player that plays at such a low level that it is virtually useless for serious listening. The sound quality of the MP3 is not bad, the quantity is. The smaller I-12 has a headphone jack that the I-25 does not have. I have swapped speakers between the two amps, and the amps sound different from each other with each speaker. The amps are neatly packed in foam in a double cardboard box. The tubes are inserted into the amp, and held in place neatly by the foam packaging.
Value: The I-12 has 12 WCP of EL84 power. The 4 EL84s are generic Shuguang tubes. I have not upgraded the tubes, and there are many possible upgrades, including the Psvanes. The I-25 has 25 WPC through 4 EL34 Shuguang black bottle Treasure Tubes. My estimated replacement costs for the 4 EL84s is about $40, the 4 EL34 about $280. For the $240 difference you could replace the I-12’s EL84s and two 12AX7s and have an amp that should sound better than stock and keep the spare tubes. The only problem is that once you add $240 to the price of the I-12 it is actually more expensive than the I-25 for half the WPC.
Build quality: identical for the two amps. Both are heavy, solid, thick aluminum face plate. Both are smaller than the HK, but weigh 2 – 3 times as much. These amps are more expensively built than your Denons, HKs, etc. All parts to fit together well. The I-25 is only a little bigger than the I-12, but considerably heavier. Switches, volume control, binding posts all have a high quality feel to them. The only problem I have encountered with the amps is with the headphone jack of the I-12. (I should mention that Ian Grant is determined to resolve this issue!) Sometimes it mutes the speaker outputs, and sometime it does not. In addition, the channels on the headphone jack are reversed. None of this is a big deal to me, because I use the RCA tube outputs on a TubeDAC-09 preamp for cans.
Sound quality: first the bad – the headphone outputs in the I-12 are quite noisy even when it works as well as it can. There is a noticeable amount of hum that is not increased by turning up the volume on the amp. I can adequately deal with the hum in the headphone output by turning the volume of the amp to `noon` and lowering the volume on my cans. But if I turn up the volume on the amp beyond `noon` other noises start to appear – not sure how to describe these noises... Variable frequency wobbling hiss?
Sound quality: The good: the sound through the speakers. Both amps are very well-behaved and sort out the input signals nicely. Both amps are very quiet, just a faint hum with full output is noticeable when you are very close to the speakers. So no worries about sounds that I should not be hearing – there are none. This is important to me. I live out of town, and my listening environment is very quiet. And anything that intrudes as noise on my music is a real annoyance to me. Both amps present a bigger 3D soundstage though the tube output than the SS output of the TubeDAC-09. I have the inner edges of the speakers at about 5` from each other, my ears are about 6` from the tweeters (and at ear level). The soundstage presentation depends a lot on the recording of a particular disc. At times the soundstage has been too wide for my little brain to comprehend, and I have needed to move away from the speakers to make the music more manageable for me to comprehend. There was never a gap in the centre, the music has just been too spread out for my brain to comfortably put it together – and there are times when I just do not want to work that hard. (This is challenge only with classical and baroque. Modern music may have detail, but to me that detail is more ornamental than meaningful, so it does not require much effort to integrate.) Anyway – any lack in soundstage width has nothing to do with these amps. Soundstage height is less huge. Depth is impressive. All of this is probably also affected by my listening room. Imaging is absolutely stable with both amps. With a decent quality recording each instrument and voice is in its own place in a 3D sound image, and stays there – unless the performer moves (e.g. Opera), or the recording engineer plays tricks (e.g. classic rock studio recordings.) Anyway, I used to listen to classical and baroque music almost exclusively through cans because the sound coming from various Yamaha and HK receivers through the DefTech speakers was so confused and muddled. Now I prefer listening through the speakers because of superior soundstage and dynamics. I had expected the tube amps to sound sweet with acoustic instruments and voice, and they do. An additional pleasant surprise is who they smooth out electronic instruments. In my set-up I can hear a lot more detail with a bit more volume with each amp.
How the amps differ: This is where things get difficult for me. The I-12 sounds ‘lighter’ and leaner to me than the I-25, but the I-25 is no less agile. Initially the I-12 seemed to have more sparkling treble than the I-25, and also more base, but this changed as the I-25’s tubes burned in more. The I-25 changed its character much more than the I-12 during burn in. I am not sure that the amps are completely done burning in, but I think their characters are now fairly clear: The I-25 is everything that the I-12 is and more: more and better controlled bass, more mids, and more treble. More detail, more ‘density’, more everything. That would be my A/B comparison. In terms of extended listening, I find the I-12 to be an absolute joy. It works great with the TubeDAC-09 and both sets of speakers in producing a musical and organized soundscape. Yesterday I enjoyed every minute of a 14 hour listening session with it. The I-25`s sound changed a lot since it first arrived. At first there was not much sound at all, and what was there did not really sound like music. It took about 20 hours for bass to introduce itself, and welcome though it was, it was uncontrolled at first. It was a lot of fun to hear the amp get better and better - probably mostly the tubes that kept improving.
Bach Brandenburg concerto 6, 3rd movement test: I-12: lots of viola notes in left channel, backed up by orchestra. I-25: 2 distinct violas playing their lines in left channel, backed up by orchestra. Variables: I-12 was hooked up with GF interconnects to GF speakers; I-25 hooked up to DefTechs through cheap generic RCAs. I-25 wins this test!
Final notes: Grant Fidelity ships their products free of additional charge in North America, I believe. Ian and Rachel kindly arranged to open up their showroom on a Sunday when I had a chance to be in Calgary on a Sunday, and meeting them allowed me to have confidence in them and their company. Over the last year I have made several purchases from them, and the orders have always shipped immediately, and been packaged very well. Ian and Rachel are committed to customer support. In dealing with Ian and Rachel I feel treated like a person rather than a credit card number, and that is very reassuring.
 
I bet that sounds nice. Sure looks nice. I do wish there was a bigger selection of power amps though. Tube integrated amps seem to be more popular.
 
the built-in MP3 player that plays at such a low level that it is virtually useless for serious listening. The sound quality of the MP3 is not bad, the quantity is.
 
Try press and hold 'next track' button beside the MP3 port, it should increase the volume - then adjust the amp's main volume control to get to where you want... this may help to get the MP3 playback volume right.

Thank you so much for taking time to write your feedback - it is greatly appreciated. Your comments about I-25 is everything of I-12 but more confirm the magic of the Treasure tubes. You may have to change your regular EL84 to Psvane EL84-T to keep up with the I-25. I somewhat feel the headphone noise is related to the generic tubes as well. These amp are of great structure in stock form - some tube upgrade will bring more of the inner beauty out of them.

Did you see our new Demonstrator map on Google map? (http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Audition-and-Demonstration.html) If you are interested in claiming your spot on the map, just send me an email I will have you set up :) I am behind on paperwork so any past customers see this thread and would like to join the map, email me through our website. It will take a while for me to send out all invitations one by one.

Rachel
 
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Try press and hold 'next track' button beside the MP3 port, it should increase the volume - then adjust the amp's main volume control to get to where you want... this may help to get the MP3 playback volume right.

Thank you so much for taking time to write your feedback - it is greatly appreciated. Your comments about I-25 is everything of I-12 but more confirm the magic of the Treasure tubes. You may have to change your regular EL84 to Psvane EL84-T to keep up with the I-25. I somewhat feel the headphone noise is related to the generic tubes as well. These amp are of great structure in stock form - some tube upgrade will bring more of the inner beauty out of them.

Did you see our new Demonstrator map on Google map? (http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Audition-and-Demonstration.html) If you are interested in claiming your spot on the map, just send me an email I will have you set up :) I am behind on paperwork so any past customers see this thread and would like to join the map, email me through our website. It will take a while for me to send out all invitations one by one.

Thanks Ian, I was indeed able to increase the MP3 output. Problem solved!
I also suspect the tubes as being the source of the hiss in the headphone output. One of these days I may upgrade to the Psvane EL84s, and then :music:
 
Interesting review. I think you are having way too much fun by going the two amps instead of the S300MK route :), which you still will have to hear again someday. I listened to the I-12 for about an hour with the stock tubes and quite enjoyed, Put in the Pavanes and was a dramatic improvement. I did all 8 tubes with the Pavanes. I'd say you are hearing about 60% of the I-12 and until you do the pre and driver Pavanes in the I-25 you are hearing about 80%.

Are you adjusting your GF LS3/5As with amp rolls?, did you notice in our showroom the clear plastic markers on the floor, they represent where certain speakers sound their best (to my ears) as you roll in different amps, I suggest you try different speaker positioning, if the soundstage is getting too wide for you, toe in a bit.

That was Rachel answering you. I didn't hear any hiss on your I-12 with Sennheizer HD 540s. Most have heard this story before, guess who Rachel sold my I-12 to :)

Cheers,
Ian
 
Interesting review. I think you are having way too much fun by going the two amps instead of the S300MK route :), which you still will have to hear again someday. I listened to the I-12 for about an hour with the stock tubes and quite enjoyed, Put in the Pavanes and was a dramatic improvement. I did all 8 tubes with the Pavanes. I'd say you are hearing about 60% of the I-12 and until you do the pre and driver Pavanes in the I-25 you are hearing about 80%.

Are you adjusting your GF LS3/5As with amp rolls?, did you notice in our showroom the clear plastic markers on the floor, they represent where certain speakers sound their best (to my ears) as you roll in different amps, I suggest you try different speaker positioning, if the soundstage is getting too wide for you, toe in a bit.

That was Rachel answering you. I didn't hear any hiss on your I-12 with Sennheizer HD 540s. Most have heard this story before, guess who Rachel sold my I-12 to :)

Cheers,
Ian

Sorry Rachel, I should not post anything before I wake up... And thanks to both of you.
I've had the speakers pointing in pretty much every direction from anywhere in the room, experimented with playing pink noise while moving through the room, etc. Hard work, but somebody had to do it... Anyway, this is still a temporary set up, and there are only so many (one) places where I can leave speakers lying around in the bedroom. No fault of the speakers or system if the soundstage is wider then I can comfortably put together in my brain. It is a function of a lack of familiarity with the music and its presentation. By moving away from the speakers I can change my virtual listening position from Front Row Centre to mid hall. Nice.
I picked the 2 'lesser' amps over the 300 to create a learning opportunity for myself. There is only so much I can do in a showroom.... And I had scoured the 'net for years like a pirate and realized that the I-xx amps are great values. There is nothing close to this price with these specs unless you are willing to go the DIY route and provide your own chassis. The S300 MK is next, after the kids have completed post-secondary education and after the I-xx amps are upgraded fully with Psvane tubes. I may not live that long - but I don't feel I am missing much with these amps. They may be cheap, but they are well-built, cute, and really nice sounding. And at least nobody sells them on me while I am not looking!
Cheers, P.
 
My Shuguang I-25......i have over 150 hours on it now and it has really opened up and is playing very sweet with good bass control as well......i have KEF IQ 10's hooked up to it in my second system.
Like most tube amps it needed time to "Break In" to sound its best.....not only that,but my Kefs were brand new and also needed at least 100 hours to break in as well....otherwise making an opinion the day i got the amp or the day after i got the amp is kinda pointless.
For an amp of this price the midrange is actually smooth and on CD's so far it has not colored the sound in any way.
I actually hooked it up to my Reference system with my KEF Reference 207'2s and the Grant Fidelity CD-1000 Impression II Tube CD Player .....i was surprised the little amp powered the KEF 207's so well.......i must say i am very pleased thus far :)......as always of course Ian and Rachel are top notch in every way! :thmbsp::banana:

Thanks Ian&Rachel.......keep up the great Customer Service!:music:

MP
 

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Added the Psvane 12AU7 and 12AX7 tubes. I don't believe they are quite broken in yet, but the I-25 alread sounds more refined - improvement on a high standard. A bit more air, more organised soundstage, some more depth and detail. A very addictive amp.
 
Pen Name how's the sound comming out of the Psvanes now?Must sound even better now ! :)
 
Sorry volks, I really have not had an opportunity to do any listening lately - so no further breaking in. Once I have more time on the tubes, I'll let you know. As you know, the I-25 is pretty fabulous stock, and I did not hear dramatic differences on the new tubes. That said, I also suspect that my speakers have become the limiting factor in my sound system.
 
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