SA-6500 II restoration

Livin4

Livin4

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

I am repairing a SA-6500 II as a birthday present for my brother, the right channel is blown, and I need to replace most of the transistors. Which are no longer available :tears: So I have to cross them to something that will work as well or better.

Here is what I have come up with so far, any comments on the choices? Or better matches?

Old---------Replacement
2SA640-----MPSA56
2SC1438----MPSA56
2SA850-----MPSA06
2SC1735----KSP8599TA
2SA777-----KSP8099TA

And for the outputs.
2SB616A----MJE15029G
2SD586A----MJE15028G

He said that before it went, he could hear a whine? squeal? in the speakers. So I am going to re-cap the whole thing as well, I am leaning towards Nichicon KW's as a good middle of the road replacement, any thoughts on these? Recommendations?

Any help is appreciated.

Pictures to follow...
 
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USE nichicon uPW caps reserving NICHICON uKL for low leakage / low noise positions. from what I can tell quickly, about a 50 - 50 mix PW to KL.
list to come later...

power amp:
2sa640 inputs 50v 0.05a 0.25w 450hfe 100mhz to-92
512-KSA992FBU (ln)to-92 ecb 120v .05a .5w 100mhz 150-800hfe $0.17 ea

2sa777 / 2sc1438 bias / vas 150v 0.05a 0.5w 150hfe 130mhz to-92
512-KSA1013YBU to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe $0.34 (R=60-120, O=100/200, Y=160/320)
512-KSC2383YBU to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe $0.17


2sa850 / 2sc1735 drivers 100v 0.5a 0.8w 300hfe 130mhz to-92
512-KSA1220AYS to-126 ecb 120/a160 1.2a 20w 155mhz 35-320hfe $0.39 (R=60-120, O=100/200, Y=160/320)
512-KSC2690AYS to-126 ecb 120/a160 1.2a 20w 155mhz 35-320hfe $0.40


2sb681 / 2sd586 batwing outputs 100v 5a 60w 80hfe 22mhz batwing
60+ watts is a bit high power for the package, thus selection is limited.
your mje's were just 50 watts, and undersized.

TIP41CG (NPN) and TIP42CG (PNP). These are 65 watt devices in a TO-220 package.
(batwing replacements)
863-TIP42CG pnp to-220 bce 100v 6a 65w 3mhz 30-75hfe $0.70
863-TIP41CG npn to-220 bce 100v 6a 65w 3mhz 30-75hfe $0.64

(more powerful to-220 batwing replacements
512-FJP1943OTU pnp to-220 bce 230v 15a 80w 30mhz 80-160hfe $1.21
512-FJP5200OTU npn to-220 bce 230v 15a 80w 30mhz 80-160hfe $0.85

batwing outputs are no longer available, thus a adapter hold down is used to clamp to-220 ntransistors in the batwing's place. There is a thread for a sa-9500ii that I did precisely that on it, with pictures. user: mea2112 's thread


caps:
awk-083 c1 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c2 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c7 47 25 ceanl 47 50 647-UKL1H470KPDANA
awk-083 c8 47 25 ceanl 47 50 647-UKL1H470KPDANA
awk-083 c21 2.2 50 ceanl 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c22 2.2 50 ceanl 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c27 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c28 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c33 47 25 ceanl 47 50 647-UKL1H470KPDANA
awk-083 c34 47 25 ceanl 47 50 647-UKL1H470KPDANA
awk-083 c35 2.2 50 ceanl 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c36 2.2 50 ceanl 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c47 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c48 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c57 6800 42 ach-073 6800 63 647-UVZ1J682MRD
awk-083 c58 6800 42 ach-073 6800 63 647-UVZ1J682MRD
awk-083 c64 4.7 35 cea 4.7 50 647-UPW1H4R7MDD
awk-083 c65 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1H221MPD
awk-083 c66 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1H221MPD
awk-083 c67 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1H221MPD
awk-083 c68 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1H221MPD
awk-083 c69 100 35 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c70 100 25 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c71 100 25 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c72 100 25 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c73 100 25 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c74 330 25 cea 330 25 647-UPW1E331MPD
awk-083 c75 330 25 cea 330 25 647-UPW1E331MPD
awk-083 c76 470 6 cea 470 10 647-UPW1A471MPD
awk-083 c77 470 6 cea 470 10 647-UPW1A471MPD
awk-083 c78 100 10 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awk-083 c79 100 6 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awk-083 c80 100 35 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c81 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED
awk-083 c82 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED


cap list:
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H470KPDANA
647-UKL1H470KPDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H470KPDANA
647-UKL1H470KPDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UVZ1J682MRD
647-UVZ1J682MRD
647-UPW1H4R7MDD
647-UPW1H221MPD
647-UPW1H221MPD
647-UPW1H221MPD
647-UPW1H221MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1E331MPD
647-UPW1E331MPD
647-UPW1A471MPD
647-UPW1A471MPD
647-UPW1A101MDD
647-UPW1A101MDD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1A221MED
647-UPW1A221MED
 
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Thanks mtf, that is allot of work you did of that list. I found your solution to the TO-220 mounting to be intriguing, I am going to look into it. I had been thinking of a more form fitting (machined) mounting, but yours will do very nicely.

I have put together an order to re-cap my Sansui, and will order all the parts at the same time.

As I am currently working nights, and need to be up in 5 hours, I am now going to bed :boring:.

Thanks again.
 
Literally "don't rush it", once I actually get the cap parts numbers in (and remove that last line), YOU need to visually verify that those positions (cx) are those uf values (there will be some variation in the voltages of the replacements, invariably to a greater voltage).

Rushing never helps - quality takes time.
 
I agree, there is no rush on this.:no: I am still in the process of verifing the Sansui caps as well.

This amp is special to my brother, back in the early 80's he used it to DJ parties. At 30wpc, It was amazing how much sound this little amp can put out. He ran 4 speakers (2 of them were from Lafayette, I forget the brand on the others), and it was loud enough to rattle the windows. It was his daily driver until it went out a few years back.

So yeah, there is no rush, I want this right.
 
Update on this, I compared your list of caps with the amp, and found 2 caps that don't match.

The first is C67, and it is a voltage difference, (the list shows 35V and the one in the amp is 50V) so this is not important.

The other is C78, the list shows 47 at 6V, but the amp has a 100 at 10V. I have the original paper schematic that came with the amp and it shows it should be 100 at 6V. So the one that is in there matches the schematic I have.

The amp has been repaired before, the right channel has different outputs, they are TO-3P's mounted sideways.

Here are some pics of the amp.
 

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Thank you Mark, I will get those ordered first thing in the morning.
 
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Update

Well, I finally finished the recap, and miracle of miracles I visited an old friend and he had a set of the original output transistors! Not sure if there counterfeits, although he says he has had them for several years...

Here are some pics of after the re-cap.
After recap-before installing heatsink.jpg
After re-cap, before installing the heatsink
Heatsink with transistors installed.jpg
Outputs mounted to the heatsink
After installing heatsink.jpg
And heatsink installed

Tomorrow I will fire it up... On a DBT of course :yes:
 
An update, both good :thumbsdn: and bad :thmbsp:...

Found a shorted triac, and Zenier diode.

Pulled the triac, as it is part of the protection circuit and not necessary to set up the amps, I will get a replacement in the morning...

The diode is part of the power supply for the phono pre-amp and the tone amp. I disabled that section so I could troubleshoot the amp section, but I will have to have a new one in there before I can actually run a signal thru to see if it all works.

Good news is the amps "seem" to be working well, the DC offset is at R 5mv/L 22mv. The manual is kinda vague on what the exact spec should be, only to cut a jumper (no pots) if is less than 10mv. The strange thing is that the right channel only got new caps, no other work.

Oh well, tomorrow I will replace the diode and triac and go from there.
 
Well... I replaced the diode and the triac, and the amp turns on!! :D

But... now there is a resistor that is getting hot. Looks like the circuit is designed to drop (per schematic) 18v across it, 42v incoming, 24v zenier on the other side. In reality its ~45v incoming, so 21v drop.

Quick calculation says that is ~.65w. The schematic shows it to be a .25w resistor? WTH? No wonder its hot!! I am betting the schematic is wrong, but not sure :scratch2:. Oh well, :sigh: I will have to look into it more.
 
IT'S ALIVE!!! :banana:

Been playing Pink Floyd Dark Side Of the Moon for the last hour :music:, sounds great.

Still not sure about the resistor, and there several others I am wondering about, they were hot after idling it for about 4 hours last night, Seems that Pioneer under speck'd them, maybe on purpose? They are all in the PS section, so maybe they are being used for protection of sorts? i.e if a transistor shorts, the resistor will smoke, saving major damage?

Not sure, I have verified all the currents and all are where they should be.

Oh well, IT LIVES!!!
 
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I just wanted to add some info to this thread for future reference.
I'm recapping a SA-6500 mkII, and going through the schematic and parts layout I found that C82 (220uF 6v) is incorrectly marked C85 on the parts layout. This is per the service manual I downloaded from HiFi engine.

Also (at least on my amp) C62 and C63 (0.1uF Mylar CQMA 104K 50) are not installed. Must have been a design change some where down the line.

Oh and Mark, thanks for the parts list. Saved me a lot of research time. :thmbsp:
 
Anti_Skate said:
I just wanted to add some info to this thread for future reference.
I'm recapping a SA-6500 mkII, and going through the schematic and parts layout I found that C82 (220uF 6v) is incorrectly marked C85 on the parts layout. This is per the service manual I downloaded from HiFi engine.

Also (at least on my amp) C62 and C63 (0.1uF Mylar CQMA 104K 50) are not installed. Must have been a design change some where down the line.

Oh and Mark, thanks for the parts list. Saved me a lot of research time. :thmbsp:
Click to expand...

You will find that on allot of units, of different brands, and is something you will need to watch for. Especially if you are making a list of parts to order. I have found it better to make a list from the schematic in excel, then compare the list to the actual unit, and order whats in the unit. Unless it looks like it may have been changed during some previous repair.
 
I am newly signed up on Audiokarma. I have a recenty-acquired Pioneer SA-6500II (and TX-6500II), that powered up for me the first couple nights. Oh Man, was it was a 'dirt herdin' mess.' (pictures below). After I cleaned the pots, switches and fuses, it still worked, until I tried it again the next day. Left channel output predominantly a humming/buzzing noise, with faint tuner signal only in the high range. Very little if any output on the right. I cannot remember. Turning the volume increased the hum/buz. Like an idiot I turned function control for an instant to phono; the hum/buz blasted so loud I feared for the speakers.

Well, I was planning on restoring the amplifier anyway. I really like the clean lines and simplicity of the face and controls. I had already located the thread from some years ago using a Google search containing what appears like an excellent BOM for caps and transistors, and some notes on the repair restore.

I wonder how that amplifier is doing today? I imagine it is still going strong.

Would someone like to help me decipher the list for ordering purposes? I tried copying and pasting a line or two into Mouser to no avail. In the meantime I will print out the service manual from a download. That might help me begin to figure it out. I will be sure to cross check with what is actually on the boards of my amp.

This will be my first time through on a repair / restore. My experience thus far has been limited to building a couple of crossovers and speakers.

Electronics Pioneer SA 6500II and TX 6500II A 11-27-16.jpg Electronics Pioneer SA 6500II Inside Before 11-29-16.jpg
 
Hi Spencer, welcome to AK. I don't mind the post on the thread, brings it up to the top for a little nostalgia :). As to how the unit is :( I have no idea. My brother passed away 2 years ago from prostate cancer and his new greedy wife took everything. It probably ended up at goodwill.

Now, for deciphering the list. The list came from Markthefixer, one of the pioneer gods here on AK and looks intimidating until you understand how to read it.

For example: awk-083 c1 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 refers to the board the component is on, in this case there is only 1 board in the onit.
c1 is the location number assigned to that capacitor on the board and the schematic.
2.2 25 is the capacitor value and voltage i.e. 2.2uf 25V
csza 2.2 50 is the Pioneer part number
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA is the Mouser Electronics part number. Mouser usually puts a 3 digit number in front of the manufacturers part number. In this case 647, I believe it refers to the manufacturer as in this it is a Nichicon capacitor and all the Nichicon capacitors have the same 647. The UKL1H2R2MDDANA is Nichicon's part number.

And it is similar with the transistors: 863-TIP42CG pnp to-220 bce 100v 6a 65w 3mhz 30-75hfe
863-TIP42CG Mouser part number, this is a ON Semiconductor transistor, 863 refers to the manfacturer, TIP42CG is the manfacturers part number.
pnp Type of transistor
to-220 Case style of transistor
100v 6a 65w 3mhz 30-75hfe Specifications of transistor.

My statements as to what the first 3 numbers in Mouser's part number represent are my speculation from my observations only, and may not be 100% correct for every part Mouser sells. Just what I have noticed.

Hope this helps.
 
markthefixer said:
USE nichicon uPW caps reserving NICHICON uKL for low leakage / low noise positions. from what I can tell quickly, about a 50 - 50 mix PW to KL.
list to come later...

power amp:
2sa640 inputs 50v 0.05a 0.25w 450hfe 100mhz to-92
512-KSA992FBU (ln)to-92 ecb 120v .05a .5w 100mhz 150-800hfe $0.17 ea

2sa777 / 2sc1438 bias / vas 150v 0.05a 0.5w 150hfe 130mhz to-92
512-KSA1013YBU to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe $0.34 (R=60-120, O=100/200, Y=160/320)
512-KSC2383YBU to-92L ecb 160v 1a .9w 50mhz 160-320hfe $0.17


2sa850 / 2sc1735 drivers 100v 0.5a 0.8w 300hfe 130mhz to-92
512-KSA1220AYS to-126 ecb 120/a160 1.2a 20w 155mhz 35-320hfe $0.39 (R=60-120, O=100/200, Y=160/320)
512-KSC2690AYS to-126 ecb 120/a160 1.2a 20w 155mhz 35-320hfe $0.40


2sb681 / 2sd586 batwing outputs 100v 5a 60w 80hfe 22mhz batwing
60+ watts is a bit high power for the package, thus selection is limited.
your mje's were just 50 watts, and undersized.

TIP41CG (NPN) and TIP42CG (PNP). These are 65 watt devices in a TO-220 package.
(batwing replacements)
863-TIP42CG pnp to-220 bce 100v 6a 65w 3mhz 30-75hfe $0.70
863-TIP41CG npn to-220 bce 100v 6a 65w 3mhz 30-75hfe $0.64

(more powerful to-220 batwing replacements
512-FJP1943OTU pnp to-220 bce 230v 15a 80w 30mhz 80-160hfe $1.21
512-FJP5200OTU npn to-220 bce 230v 15a 80w 30mhz 80-160hfe $0.85

batwing outputs are no longer available, thus a adapter hold down is used to clamp to-220 ntransistors in the batwing's place. There is a thread for a sa-9500ii that I did precisely that on it, with pictures. user: mea2112 's thread


caps:
awk-083 c1 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c2 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c7 47 25 ceanl 47 50 647-UKL1H470KPDANA
awk-083 c8 47 25 ceanl 47 50 647-UKL1H470KPDANA
awk-083 c21 2.2 50 ceanl 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c22 2.2 50 ceanl 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c27 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c28 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c33 47 25 ceanl 47 50 647-UKL1H470KPDANA
awk-083 c34 47 25 ceanl 47 50 647-UKL1H470KPDANA
awk-083 c35 2.2 50 ceanl 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c36 2.2 50 ceanl 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c47 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c48 2.2 25 csza 2.2 50 647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
awk-083 c57 6800 42 ach-073 6800 63 647-UVZ1J682MRD
awk-083 c58 6800 42 ach-073 6800 63 647-UVZ1J682MRD
awk-083 c64 4.7 35 cea 4.7 50 647-UPW1H4R7MDD -> 647-UPW1H4R7MDD1TD
awk-083 c65 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1H221MPD
awk-083 c66 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1H221MPD
awk-083 c67 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1H221MPD
awk-083 c68 220 50 cea 220 50 647-UPW1H221MPD
awk-083 c69 100 35 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD -> 647-UPW1V101MPD1TD
awk-083 c70 100 25 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c71 100 25 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c72 100 25 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c73 100 25 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c74 330 25 cea 330 25 647-UPW1E331MPD -> 647-UPW1E331MPD6
awk-083 c75 330 25 cea 330 25 647-UPW1E331MPD
awk-083 c76 470 6 cea 470 10 647-UPW1A471MPD
awk-083 c77 470 6 cea 470 10 647-UPW1A471MPD
awk-083 c78 100 10 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awk-083 c79 100 6 cea 100 10 647-UPW1A101MDD
awk-083 c80 100 35 cea 100 35 647-UPW1V101MPD
awk-083 c81 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED
awk-083 c82 220 6 cea 220 10 647-UPW1A221MED


cap list:
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H470KPDANA
647-UKL1H470KPDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H470KPDANA
647-UKL1H470KPDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UKL1H2R2MDDANA
647-UVZ1J682MRD
647-UVZ1J682MRD
647-UPW1H4R7MDD
647-UPW1H221MPD
647-UPW1H221MPD
647-UPW1H221MPD
647-UPW1H221MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1E331MPD
647-UPW1E331MPD
647-UPW1A471MPD
647-UPW1A471MPD
647-UPW1A101MDD
647-UPW1A101MDD
647-UPW1V101MPD
647-UPW1A221MED
647-UPW1A221MED
Click to expand...

Hello Mark,

as somebody who is kind of bored this time of the year, i am also starting a "home improvement" projert, aka recapping my SA 6500 II. Read a lot of usefull posts of yours, and need your help regarding a few capacitors that are currently not in stock at the german Mouser store.

I have added the alternative product in the qoute above. I would kindly ask you to look over them and let me know if the selected caps are a good alternative to the ones listed by you. I also did not find an alternative to positions C57 and C58 that are currently out of stock but should arrive tomorrow - in case they dont, are there any alternatives to it?

The amp has been, for as long as i have it (about 4 years), functioning perfectly, but while at it, is there anything else i should or could do to imprive and or prolong it´s life?

Thank you in advance.
 
Hey how's it going. C64. C79, C74? Welcome to AK. If you reply it may be a few hours before I get back. Thanks. -Matt
 
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