Yaqin MC-100B - not as powerful as advertised, but still a good value. Part 1.

for_p1

Addicted Member
After many years of exclusively using solid state gear, I decided to try modern tube amp. I had no intention to spend several thousand dollars on that new toy, so my only real choice was one of Chinese amplifiers, as many of them are available for under $1000. Speakers in my main system are 90dB efficient, so even though room is not that big, I thought that I need sufficient power. This requirement excluded almost all SET amplifiers (yes, I know there are some 30-40W amps with 845 or similar tube, but they were out of my decided price range). I did some search and decided to get one of Yaqin amplifiers. My final choice was MC-100B. I already have an almost perfect preamp (old Yamaha CX-1000), so my target was a power amplifier. Yaqin actually does not make any dedicated power amplifiers, but many of their so-called "integrated" are no more than power amplifier with volume control pot at the input. I decided to get the most powerful one - MC-100B. It is advertised as reaching 60W per channel, built as dual mono on a single chassis and does not have anything I DO NOT need like remote.

Yaqin does not have any official distributor in the US, so I ordered it amplifier from one of e-bay sellers (tabnaac) in Canada. He is dedicated to Yaqin brand and has almost perfect feedback history. There were zero problems with order, and in about a week
I got a very heavy box with Canadian shipping label. Again there were no problems with packaging, and soon shiny chromium plated amplifier was sitting on a stand which I bought for it. It is so heavy and produces large amount of heat, so I couldn't put it into my equipment rack. I new this in advance, and made arrangement to get a dedicated stand (VTI AGR404-01S), which arrived even before Yaqin was deliver to me.

I have only one set of speakers in my music room, and since I already have solid state amp powering them, I needed speaker switch. I spent a lot of time searching Internet for a something that can be used to connect one pair of speakers to two amplifiers, and didn't find that many options. Most speaker switches designed to connect several pairs of speakers to a single amplifier. Many of advanced one have a volume control etc. But this is not what I needed. My goal was to have a switch as transparent as possible and do not do anything I didn't need. I also found that many switches are designed to work with relatively low power amplifiers (under 100W), but my solid state rig delivers over 500W to 4 Ohm load. Finally I found device that was almost perfect - OSD ATM-7. This is remotely controlled (it actually comes with IR remote) switch that can connect seven pairs of speakers to two amplifiers (or seven amplifiers to two pairs of speakers). It prevents connecting the same speakers to two amplifiers at the same time
(it will likely result in amplifier failure). I jumped on opportunity to get one on sale, and got this switch. It is weird, but it is only available from a single on-line store, however it was not branded specifically for that store. It actually didn't have any label on it, which might attribute it to the manufacturer. So it is indeed "no-name" unit. But nevertheless, it works perfectly, exactly as advertised.


So after I connected everything together, I turned on Yaqin and let it run for an hour. After 30 minutes or so I checked bias of tubes (MC-100B has fixed bias, which needs to be adjusted once in a while). It was spot on at 52mA for each tube (recommended setting is between 50 and 60mA). To easily compare my SS amplifier with new Yaqin, I adjusted volume in both of them using pink noise source and sound level meter. Yaqin does not have balance control, so I adjusted volume in each channel of my solid state power amp (it has the separate volume pots for each channel) to match new tube amp, one channel at a time. I made both channels matching within 0.2 dB.

Now it was time to listen. I prepared several CDs, which I know very well, with different kind of music. From large classical orchestra, to chamber orchestra, to jazz, to classic rock. I went through all this disks (about 10 of them) for several days. I found that at moderate volume levels (when I only get under 20 Watts from amplifier) it was very hard to hear the difference between SS and tube amp. I also asked my wife’s (she is a trained musician) opinion, and she couldn't hear it too. But after some time and good concentration I was able to reliably identify Yaqin sound.

First was bass. In by SS amp the bass is very tight, and it is perfectly aligned with the rest of the sound. With Yaqin bass was a bit fatter. It seems that tube amp is not able to fully control speakers in the lower octave. On same type of music it is not pronounced at all. But where you have large drums recorded with low compression, and thus keep all dynamic and punch, here you go - tube amp simply couldn't match precision of SS amplifier.

Midrange was exactly the same with either SS amplifier or Yaqin. I tried hard, but never was able to identify any tube signature in it.

Now treble. What I found was that Yaqin had it a little muted. It was like light veil over tweeter. You can't hear it in any electronic sound, but on good acoustical recording it didn't produced that level of transparency, and sense of space around percussion instruments like bells and cymbals. This again was only heard on records with only little compression applied to them.

As a result of listening sessions, I can say that there is nothing mystical about tube amps. They (at least when we consider moderately priced gear) sound close to good SS amplifiers. They do have some deficiencies, but they are not very pronounced and might not be recognized, when record quality is not exceptional or speakers and room do not permit to resolve very fine details of the sound.

So after two weeks of listening it was time for a test bench. I searched hard trying to find any published measurements of Yaqin amplifiers, but got empty handed. Since there are no official distributors of Yaqin in any country I know of, there is no one to deliver a sample unit to any of usual testers (both on-line publications and print magazines). So I decided to run few tests with the goal to make them available to anyone, who consider Yaqin brand. And also as a starting point for tweaking this amplifier (which was the original goal behind purchasing it). In my next post I will provide details and results of measurements and results of my initial attempt to improve the sound of Yaqin MC-100B. Stay tuned…


Part 2: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=430109
Part 3: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=430113
 
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Staying tuned.

I have one with better quality tubes, caps & wires. The front input voltage selector is partly bypassed and the volume pot is replaced by a stepped attenuator. Therefore I don't really know what the stock unit might sound like. But I understand the tonal quality hinges greatly upon the preamp tubes (12AU(X)7). You might want to at least replace those tubes before giving the amp your final word.
 
Did you try the Yaqin in Trode mode?

Was the amp run-in? maybe you don't believe in run-in?

The stock small Chinese signal tubes are rubbish, a good place to start with changes, the Chinese output tubes are just OK IMO.
There are many compromises in these amps in stock form that detract from a better sound, the parts used and the circuit itself and the build.

Joe Rasmussen mods this model as well as the MC-10L and his mods lift the SQ substantially! http://www.customanalogue.com/jlti_el34.htm

These amps in stock form don't represent the sound of all tube amps, far from it.

I'm sure with extensive mods you will enjoy this amp much more :)
 
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If taken with parts 2&3, this was so close to being interesting.

Anyone making blanket judgements of all tube amplifiers after sampling ONE with known issues in the original tubes is not worth reading...:thumbsdn:
 
Staying tuned.

I have one with better quality tubes, caps & wires. The front input voltage selector is partly bypassed and the volume pot is replaced by a stepped attenuator. Therefore I don't really know what the stock unit might sound like. But I understand the tonal quality hinges greatly upon the preamp tubes (12AU(X)7). You might want to at least replace those tubes before giving the amp your final word.

I didn't use input switch at all. But I do not believe it will make any significant difference. Lower level of feedback in "integrated amplifier" mode does have sonic and measurable differences. But I only considered "power amplifier" mode with front inputs.I do think that changing tube will make change. It could be that it will behave closer to simulated model then. But generally my measurements of first SRPP stage didn't show any immediate problems, unlike they did with phase splitter and final stage.
 
I didn't use input switch at all. But I do not believe it will make any significant difference. Lower level of feedback in "integrated amplifier" mode does have sonic and measurable differences. But I only considered "power amplifier" mode with front inputs.I do think that changing tube will make change. It could be that it will behave closer to simulated model then. But generally my measurements of first SRPP stage didn't show any immediate problems, unlike they did with phase splitter and final stage.

I'm not technically minded as you are but I doubt the 'power amp mode' really is a power amp mode as Yaqin likes to represent. At the end of the day the volume control still works with this 'power amp mode'.

BTW, nice effort trying to 'measure' the sonic output of this amp as a stock unit. I must say however I didn't understand half of it :D
 
Sorry, but somone telling me there's no "magic in Italian cars...I know because I've driven a Fiat 124 for a week" isn't exactly moving forward with me.

Lord, deliver us from meter readers making value judgements on musical quality.
 
Sorry, but somone telling me there's no "magic in Italian cars...I know because I've driven a Fiat 124 for a week" isn't exactly moving forward with me.

Lord, deliver us from meter readers making value judgements on musical quality.

I like comment made by a host of British car show about Alfa 8c, that it is "a piece of art", and as almost any other piece of art does not excels in any regard other than look. Tube power amps do look gorgeous, but can at their best be as good as well made SS amps. And both my measurements and listening tests confirmed it. I do not say that Yaqin is bad, I do enjoy it. But it does not do anything better than my main amplifier, and after minor tweaks it doesn't do it worse either.
 
I like comment made by a host of British car show about Alfa 8c, that it is "a piece of art", and as almost any other piece of art does not excels in any regard other than look. Tube power amps do look gorgeous, but can at their best be as good as well made SS amps. And both my measurements and listening tests confirmed it. I do not say that Yaqin is bad, I do enjoy it. But it does not do anything better than my main amplifier, and after minor tweaks it doesn't do it worse either.

I wanted a tube amp purely because of the look. And I'm loving it. But I do seem to hear difference in a positive sense by adopting my upgraded/modified Yaqin. But such difference is still small if compared to changing speakers or cartridges.

Re difficulty with driving inefficient/low-impedance speakers I'm driving a pair of AR-3a which are known to be difficult to drive. I'm having no volume issue really. I feel people tend to exaggerate their need for a powerful amp in many instances. But it may have to do with my relatively smallish listening space.
 
I wanted a tube amp purely because of the look. And I'm loving it. But I do seem to hear difference in a positive sense by adopting my upgraded/modified Yaqin. But such difference is still small if compared to changing speakers or cartridges.

Re difficulty with driving inefficient/low-impedance speakers I'm driving a pair of AR-3a which are known to be difficult to drive. I'm having no volume issue really. I feel people tend to exaggerate their need for a powerful amp in many instances. But it may have to do with my relatively smallish listening space.

Yaqin is loud enough in my room. I measured sounds up to 100 dB at my listening position. Obviously it can't drive my speakers to rock concert levels. But it is sufficient for acoustical music. Now with my speakers switch I can choose which amp I want to listen with a press of a button
on remote control - this is fun.

I wouldn't consider hard to drive speakers with tubes. Even not all solid state amplifiers are competent in that regard.
 
It's interesting that many people say you need more volume for rock music than acoustic music. I usually find it to be the opposite. With non-acoustic music less volume is sufficient for me. Any more than that becomes more of noise to me.
 
BTW: 30watts/ch triode
60watts/ch ultralinear

I did t some tests on MC-100B in triode mode too. It showed a little better IMD level without global feedback than in ultralinear, but it reached clipping at 12 volts RMS at 1 kHz, which corresponds to 18 Watts only. 8 kHz measurements were even less impressive. So triode mode in Yaqin is useless.
 
I have had about 7 tube amps......some folks here have waaayyyy more than me.

The only ones that floored me personally, have been vintage amps, I'm not sure, but I've read the magic is in the output transformers.

I have three wonderful vintage tube amps that I think kill my SS amps for dynamics and musicality.
1.H.H Scott 222D
2.Dyna ST-70 with upgraded power trans and latest VTA driver board.
3.Eico HF-22 monoblock 6L6 amps.

These amps sound much better than my Quicksilver monos, Eastern Electrics, ASL's

My Solid state amps consisted of Accuphase, Forte 4a, Thresholds, and Wyred4Sound.
My vintage tube amps from the 50's and 60's sound more extended, real and dynamic and natural than anything else I've tried. Tube amps seem to very like SS amps do.
But in my opinion GOOD tube amps will be more fun to listen to than GOOD SS.

AND, the tubes mater too.....
 
I did t some tests on MC-100B in triode mode too. It showed a little better IMD level without global feedback than in ultralinear, but it reached clipping at 12 volts RMS at 1 kHz, which corresponds to 18 Watts only. 8 kHz measurements were even less impressive. So triode mode in Yaqin is useless.
I'm driving a pair of Lenehan ML-1's (less efficient than those speakers you have) with a Triode strapped EL34 amp (2x EL34's per channel) the circuit designed by a friend of mine is different to most out there, and it sounds very different to any SS amps I have heard, and different to a lot of valve amps.... and I love it :)

The 100B has a lot of potential, I'm not sure if you looked at that link I posted?

But Joe does good things to them, and there is even more improvement to be had beyond that. (I'm not connected to Joe's business in any way)

Anyhow, I enjoyed reading ya' posts :yes: hope you get it singing sweet :thmbsp:
 
>> So after I connected everything together, I turned on Yaqin and let it run for an hour.

Ok, that is warm-up time for a tube amp to stabilize-
My understanding is it take 200+ hour to break in the new tubes ...
All that means is to leave the amp on 24hrs/day for 8 days or so.
 
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