Thorens TD160 looking for phono stage: could you help?

dirklenart

dirklenart

New Member
Hi guys

I've been reading this forum for some time now, picking up good references of phono stages, checking them out, looking for used ones on Ebay.

This Friday I'm getting a Thorens TD160 and I want to hook it up to my Arcam Solo amp. So I need a phono stage. Since I'm just starting I'll try to start with a decent sounding system. The Thorens has a new Ortofon OM 5E (installed by the seller) and also the original Thorens arm judging from the pictures I got.

Now, I want to spend like 200 euro (265 USD) on a used (Ebay) phono stage. I have my eye on:
Rega Fono MM (135 USD)
Musical Fidelity VLPS-II (new) (205 USD)
Creek OBH 15 MM (used, might be within reach of 265 USD, still a few days to go on Ebay)
Graham Slee Gram Amp 2 Communicator MM Phono Stage (new: 235 USD)
some new Pro-Ject Phono Boxes are also within reach up to the:
Pro-Ject Phono Box SE II MM/MC

I'm tempted myself to go for the Rega Fono MM since it might be a bargain. I also like things British ... so the Graham Slee is tempting too.

What might be your advice as a partner for my Thorens TD160?

Your help is very welcome.

Dirk Lenart
Ghent in Belgium
 
Welcome Dirk!
I own a V-LPS (MkI) and (like a lot of others) feel that it offers great bang for your buck. I had a Phono Box SE II and aside from the adjustable loading, didn't find it any better than the V-LPS. I wonder how the Graham Slee sounds. It has the lineage. I'm sure that other members will chime in.

Good luck with your quest.
 
Last edited:
I'll second the suggestion of the VLP-S. I have a VLP-S (not MkII) and find it to be quite good. I admit to not having heard the other phono stages listed. I have heard some negative comments on the Gram and Creek offerings though. Another benefit of the VLP-S is that it also supports Moving Coil. At 205 USD the VLP-S MkII is definitely a bargain.
 
I have and love the V-LPS Mk 1 and feel no need to upgrade to the Mk II. I'm also curious about the Slee, though.
 
Welcome Dirk :) I'm running a Vincent PHO-111 phono pre that runs MM and MC. I'm using it with my Thorens TD-160, and love it.
 
Thank you guys for these interesting responses. I'll definitely check out some more review on the MF V-LPS, your support of this stage is very convincing.

And thank you for the Vincent being mentioned. I didn't hear about it, but it appears to be German and I can order with Amazon Germany for like 150 USD. Sounds appealing! Looking for some reviews on that stage at the moment.

Keep posting suggestions if you can spare the time :music:

Dirk Lenart
Ghent Belgium
 
I own a V-LPS (MkI) also but would also mention it benefits from also running the MF PSU. It makes it do what it can otherwise there's quality output you're not getting.

pbinpb57 said:
Welcome Dirk!
I own a V-LPS (MkI) and (like a lot of others) feel that it offers great bang for your buck. I had a Phono Box SE II and aside from the adjustable loading, didn't find it any better than the V-LPS. I wonder how the Graham Slee sounds. It has the lineage. I'm sure that other members will chime in.
Click to expand...

pbinpb57 that is interesting comment. I was thinking of changing from the V-LPS to a Phono Box SE II exactly because it has adjustable loading. Was thinking of this after I ran into problems not having the right loading to run a Denon cart. Now I'm too scared to buy anything except Ortofon cos it might not work right. If the Phono Box SE II was no better but was adjustable wouldn't that be the choice one ? and yet you've gone for the V-LPS ?
What was your thinking there ?
thanks.

This might help the OP too.
 
Last edited:
Hi Dirk,

Another suggestion would be the Trichord Dino which you migt get for that sort of money 2nd hand. Very flexible with dip switches to set it up for most cartridges and sounds great. You can also add better power supplies if you want to up the performance even more.

HTH

Kind Regards

Steve
 
Also like to point out that if this is the original arm (TP16) the Ortofon OM5 may not be a good match. This is a relatively high compliance cartridge and the arm is medium mass or higher. Obviously can't complain about it if it comes with it but you may want to think about a difference cartridge as well as a phono stage if you want to make the best out of the combo.

Jeff
 
Thanks for the new suggestions

@ stevieg330: The Dino is out of my league at the moment. Cheapest I could find on Ebay 680 USD.

@ JMathers: I was thinking about that path too in the future. Could you make some suggestions plz? I'm new in this kind of audio material.

@ kermit z: The Vincent is quite cheap but I couldn't find any kind of review or analysis of this stage. But I could get for 160 USD, which is nice.
 
dirklenart said:
Thanks for the new suggestions

@ JMathers: I was thinking about that path too in the future. Could you make some suggestions plz? I'm new in this kind of audio material.
Click to expand...

I like the Denon 160 in that arm. A Denon 110 would be nice as well if you can't find a reasonably priced used 160 (the 160 is no longer made). That would suggest too that you need a phono stage with enough gain to get the most out of a high output moving coil cartridge.

Jeff
 
@ jamthers: In that case it would be best to buy a MM/MC phono stage I guess? That would rule out the Ebayed Rega Fono MM. But the often (here also) praised Musical Fidelity V-LPS II would be a nice and quite cheap setup to start with.
Maybe upgrade with the V-PSU II later on?
 
jmathers said:
Also like to point out that if this is the original arm (TP16) the Ortofon OM5 may not be a good match. This is a relatively high compliance cartridge and the arm is medium mass or higher. Obviously can't complain about it if it comes with it but you may want to think about a difference cartridge as well as a phono stage if you want to make the best out of the combo.

Jeff
Click to expand...

Jeff has a very valid point as long as it is the original TP16 mkI with the removable headshell. If the arm has a removable wand (arm) then it is a later model which all are low mass arms which would be fine with the Ortofon. On the Preamp side you need to decide if you want to go with a MM or MC cartridge, I would buy one capable of both type cartridges which will give you the flexibility later to decide. The next level is one that will allow you to change gain and loading. I would look for a used Musical Surroundings Phonomena $225-$300 with out the battery power supply, which offers a lot of flexibility and sounds great. For running just MM cartridges, a Haggerman Bugle will offer tremendous bang for the buck, and to run MM@47Kohm and MC@100 ohm load a new or used Cambridge Audio 640P is a nice unit that can be upgraded. (Available on Amazon from $179)
Good luck,
Jim
 
dirklenart said:
@ jamthers: In that case it would be best to buy a MM/MC phono stage I guess? That would rule out the Ebayed Rega Fono MM. But the often (here also) praised Musical Fidelity V-LPS II would be a nice and quite cheap setup to start with.
Maybe upgrade with the V-PSU II later on?
Click to expand...

Or the Pangea P100 power supply @$99.00
Regards,
Jim
 
Dirk, here are the specs from Vincent:

Technical details
•Frequency response: 20 Hz - 20 kHz +/- 0.5 dB
•Output voltage: 200mV/1 kHz, THD: < 0.0005 %
•Input sensitivity: MM I & II: 4 mV/1 kHz, MC: 0,45 mV/1 kHz
•Signal-Noise ratio MM I & II: > 88 dB, MC: > 78 dB
•Input impedance MM I: 47 kOhm/100pF, MM II: 47 kOhm/300pF, MC:100 Ohm/100pF
•Inputs: 1 x RCA
•Outputs: 1 x RCA
•Mains supply: 16 VAC/200 mA, Weight: 0,5 kg
•Colour: black/silver, Dim. (WxHxD): 145 x 55 x 125 mm

As you can see the THD is insanly low. I have run this with my Pro-Ject RM 1.3 TT with great results. I like this one better than my Kenwood Basic C2 pre, which has a very good Phono section in itself. Here is a link to the product on the Vincent web site.

http://www.vincent-tac.de/en/product-lines/powerline/pho-111.html
 
Personally, I'd get the Graham Amp 2. I've heard the Graham Slee V and if it's anything close you can't do better. I'm not sure on the output level but it should run the Denons just fine.

Jeff
 
dirklenart said:
@ jamthers: In that case it would be best to buy a MM/MC phono stage I guess? That would rule out the Ebayed Rega Fono MM. But the often (here also) praised Musical Fidelity V-LPS II would be a nice and quite cheap setup to start with.
Maybe upgrade with the V-PSU II later on?
Click to expand...

Don't limit yourself to the current retail Mk II's. I have the original (MK I) of each and they work fine. If you found those originals 2nd hand it would be even more worthwhile. The originals and MKIIs are interchangeable. I have V PSU (I) running V LPS (I) and VDAC II.

goldwax said:
There are cheaper alternatives to the V-PSU, for example: http://www.amazon.com/Pyramid-PS3KX...TD2K/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1335478103&sr=8-3

One of these is also required: http://www.amazon.com/1-3mm-3-5mm-11-2mm-Plug-Cord/dp/B000LFRT8K/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b
Click to expand...

Yes, those Pyramids are popular in the US. They aren't available here so I'm unsure if the OP could get them in Belgium. I expect there would be similar options. The main benefit of the MF PSU is it has 3 outputs so it can run up to 3 V series components at the same time.
 
E.Man,
The SE II is a good phono pre and yes the adjustable loading is a plus. I sold mine to help fund mods to my Planar 2. Kept the V-LPS plus a DB Systems DB-8 with a resistive loading kit. Actually, the DB-8 would be a fine choice for the OP to consider.

Cheers


E.Man said:
I own a V-LPS (MkI) also but would also mention it benefits from also running the MF PSU. It makes it do what it can otherwise there's quality output you're not getting.



pbinpb57 that is interesting comment. I was thinking of changing from the V-LPS to a Phono Box SE II exactly because it has adjustable loading. Was thinking of this after I ran into problems not having the right loading to run a Denon cart. Now I'm too scared to buy anything except Ortofon cos it might not work right. If the Phono Box SE II was no better but was adjustable wouldn't that be the choice one ? and yet you've gone for the V-LPS ?
What was your thinking there ?
thanks.

This might help the OP too.
Click to expand...
 
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