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JH vs Technics

idealist

Perfectionist on a budget
Hi all, :)

I am currently running a Technics SL-120 with a SME 3009 MKII arm, and an assortment of cartridges.

A friend has promised me a JH turntable, with a Grace arm (in exchange for some audio and Ham equipment I have).

My question: Is the JH / Grace combination equal to the Technics? (given the same cartridge/s)

I understand the Technics is direct-drive and the JH is belt drive (I have ordered a new belt).

Anybody had experience with both?

thanks and regards,
:)
Mike
 
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I've never heard of a "JH" turntable, so I did a quick Google search. One of the links was to a discussion on Vinyl Engine forums regarding JH turntables running too fast. FWIW, the consensus in that thread was that they were intentionally designed to run fast.

Perhaps the Grace tonearm and whatever cartridge is on it would make the swap worthwhile? I seriously doubt it'll outperform your Technics.

http://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=20728
 
I couldn't live with a table that ran noticably fast or slow. (I'm sensitive to pitch.)

Me too, actually. I'm wondering now what steps to take. I won't pass it up, 'cause it's a classic, but the speed issue will have to be sorted...

:)
Mike
 
If it's a low voltage DC motor, a speed box or maybe even tweaking the pots on the DC servo could fix it.
If it's an AC motor and belt driven, the pulley would have to be remachined to the correct tolerance.
 
Apples and oranges, it'll be different. "Different" is easy, "better" not so much.
Perhaps an interesting project TT.
 
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I had a JH Turntable years ago and they came standard with a Formula IV damped arm and that combination worked fairly well for the money.

The arm is the strong point, the turntable not so much, it has a cheap pressed aluminum platter. They were designed to run fast to account for slow down when using a dust bug or similar.

Keep the arm and put it on a decent table IMO, YMMV.
 
I had a JH many years ago before I had to downsize things. Never noticed any issue with it being fast. Yes, they have a lightweight platter, this was deliberate to keep the rumble down, not just as a price ploy. There a number of different types of motor units out there, some of them with different methods of selecting the speed, mine was an easy one. Mine also had the motor mounted on a rubber band type suspension (memory is getting hazy now on this) but this rubber over time drooped, allowing the motor to hang down too low.
I have since picked up another one, sadly without the platter, but the motor on it is rigidly attached.
I have some advertising stuff which I could scan if you are really interested.
They are an Aussie classic and I quite regret getting rid of mine now, so my advice would be to get hold of the one you are looking at.
They have an AC synchronous motor.
 
I have some advertising stuff which I could scan if you are really interested.
They are an Aussie classic and I quite regret getting rid of mine now, so my advice would be to get hold of the one you are looking at.
They have an AC synchronous motor.

I would LOVE this, if you would be prepared to do it... :)

Thanks for all the other answers and ideas. I guess I'll have to wait till I receive it before I know what I can do with it.

One thing though, I thought the motor would be an AC synchronous type. (maybe I'm wrong here) If that's the case, options are seriously limited...

thanks again,
:)
Mike
 
I am currently running a Technics SL-120 with a SME 3009 MKII arm, and an assortment of cartridges.

A friend has promised me a JH turntable, with a Grace arm (in exchange for some audio and Ham equipment I have).

My question: Is the JH / Grace combination equal to the Technics? (given the same cartridge/s)

Here’s my assessment of your Technics versus the JH, and the winners in each category.
Looks: Technics
Rumble: JH
Wow and flutter: Technics
Tonearm: probably the Technics’ SME, although the Grace isn’t bad
Reliability: hard to say – the JH is so simple there’s not much to go wrong, so it may be best (apart from the belt), but the Technics is pretty strong. Call it a draw.

The JH is an interesting piece of Australian audio history, and is capable of very good performance. However, I wouldn’t go out of my way to chase one. By the way, the cheapest belts for them are the ones for a range of Michell turntables – I think from the Gyrodec/Orbe/Syncro, which are available on Ebay at much (much!) cheaper prices than some you’ll find, and are very slightly stronger than the original belts.

I own a JH Phase 2 turntable, which I’ve had for years, and it was surprising the performance they got out of such a simple design – they were actually very similar to some very well thought of brands, and in my opinion the only area where they suffered was in looks, which tended to vary, particularly on the ones which had been put together as kits. That’s why the bases usually vary from quite good (the genuine ones sold complete with base, and the ones sold complete by hi-fi shops) to really bad. Mine, which I bought very cheaply off a colleague years ago after he'd upgraded to a Denon direct drive, was supplied with a sprung base and cover made by a former Melbourne and Sydney hi-fi shop (Instrol Hi-fi), and is quite smart, although the four springs are a bit too stiff to provide much acoustic isolation.

The JH turntable was actually, surprising as it may seem, a really high performer, as can be seen by the following independently tested performance results, all of belt drive turntables (apart from the Technics):

Akai AP-100C: rumble 32dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.1% RMS
Harksound (by CEC) HS-310: rumble 38dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.09% RMS
JH Audiolab (this was a late-70's model, which had a floating sub-chassis): rumble 42dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.09% RMS
Philips AF-977: rumble 34dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.13%
Pioneer PL-516: rumble 36.5dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.09% RMS
Rega Planar 2: rumble 36dB unweighted, (wow & flutter measured using a different standard)
Rega Planar 3: (example 1) rumble 43.5dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.072% RMS (example 2) rumble 42dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.075% RMS
Sanyo TP-728: rumble 31dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.16% RMS
Technics SL-1200MkII (direct drive): rumble 36dB unweighted, (wow & flutter measured using a different standard)
Thorens TD115: rumble 36dB unweighted, wow & flutter 0.06% RMS

The problem is that many were made from kits, and the quality of the base varies markedly between examples, but the original complete factory JH turntables were quite good, and very good value for money, as were the ones sold by dealers like Instrol Hi-fi. JH sold four different variants: the Audiolab 'O', which came without a tonearm, 'F' which included the JH Formula IV tonearm for an extra $90, or the 'A' which came with a JH Audiolab tonearm, also for an extra $90, or the kit, which came without a base or tonearm. The tonearms were the cheapest available in Australia in the 70's and 80's, although they cost $95 ($5 more) if you bought them without a JH turntable.

Mine had the JH Formula IV tonearm, which was the original Formula IV. You can read what JH thought of the Mayware Formula IV in the JH advertising flyer over at vinylengine, where JH warn about avoiding copies, because they “reflect an abysmal ignorance of elementary design principles”!:D JH designed it in the early 1970’s and had Risui Mito of Japan build it for them. The Sonus and Polk Formula IV versions were actually JH models (licensed by JH), and apparently if you peel back the stickers, it says JH underneath the Polk and Sonus names! JH were actually the Sonus cartridge distributors in Australia, and those cartridges were a perfect match for the JH tonearms. Back to back testing of the two (JH and Mayware) by USA magazine Absolute Sound found that the Mayware didn’t sound as good as the JH, as the sliding weight resonated on the Mayware. They are regularly found on Linn Sondek LP-12 turntables in Britain, as Linn were the British JH distributor.

JH also later designed another lightweight tonearm, the Audiolab, using a gimbal design at the pivot. It was also made by Risui Mito.

One of the links was to a discussion on Vinyl Engine forums regarding JH turntables running too fast. FWIW, the consensus in that thread was that they were intentionally designed to run fast.

Many belt drive turntables without adjustable speed ran slightly fast. Here’s a list of tested ones that were slightly fast – Akai AP-100C (0.1%), Ariston RD-80SL (0.4%), Challenge CSP-2 (0.3%), Hitachi HT-320 (0.15%), JH Audiolab (0.01%), Rega Planar 3 (1st example 0.02%, 2nd example 0.03%), Rotel RP-820 (0.1%), Sansui SR-B200S (0.04%), Stanton 8004-II Gyropoise (0.2%), Thorens TD-160 Super (0.5%). It was very common, and it was usually just a very marginal speed increase, which wouldn’t be noticeable in normal listening, and occurred across a range of turntables prices, from quite expensive models, to budget ones.

If it's noticeable, something's wrong. I can't pick it with my example, although running it with a strobe card proves it is very slightly fast.
 
Thanks Don, you obviously spent a lot of time putting that together, and it's appreciated...

regards,
:)
Mike
 
I have both a JH and an SL1200 MkII. The JH served me well for many years but I eventually got tired of the speed problem. To me it was noticeable. The Formula IV arm now resides on the naked (damping layers removed)SL1200 where it does a superb job. The Technics sounds better to me due to the tighter speed control of the DD.
 

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Perhaps the Grace tonearm and whatever cartridge is on it would make the swap worthwhile? I seriously doubt it'll outperform your Technics.

Oops! misunderstanding. It isn't a swap. He's GIVING me the JH...

(sorry, didn't pick that up first time around...)

Mike
 
I have both a JH and an SL1200 MkII. The JH served me well for many years but I eventually got tired of the speed problem. To me it was noticeable. The Formula IV arm now resides on the naked (damping layers removed)SL1200 where it does a superb job. The Technics sounds better to me due to the tighter speed control of the DD.

Hi, Have just returned to this thread. :)

That TT looks, ...well... naked. (put some clothes on it, please.)

Really, does removing the outer shell make so much difference? Just curious.

BTW, that arm does look kinda nice on there. :)

Mike
 
Hello, I have finally got around to scanning the ads about the JH that I promised quite some time ago. Not an easy task when the scanner is in the cupboard, having to start Parallels with XP to use the thing, and deal with my 12 week old son as well, but it's finally done.
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