Vintage AR XA vs new Rega RP1?

I'm tossing around getting a new TT. I hardly ever play my vinyl and it's largely due to my TT's, 2 vintage Realistics (a Lab 250 and a Lab 500). Both need a good setup, something I just haven't gotten around to.

A dealer here in town has a vintage AR XA for sale and I'm in love with the looks of that table. It's simply beautiful. Since I'm mainly a CD guy, maybe that table's fine for me? Heck, very few of my albums are in great shape anyway.
On the other hand I'm considering going with a new Rega RP1. Something brand new that will be set up for me, thus saving me the hassle.

The question being, is one or the other of these that much better of a table that I would be much better off with that one? This will be going in my mancave since my main system isn't in a place that's TT friendly: 2 cats, 2 dogs, 3 kids....

Wes_in_VA said:

I'm tossing around getting a new TT. I hardly ever play my vinyl and it's largely due to my TT's, 2 vintage Realistics (a Lab 250 and a Lab 500). Both need a good setup, something I just haven't gotten around to.

A dealer here in town has a vintage AR XA for sale and I'm in love with the looks of that table. It's simply beautiful. Since I'm mainly a CD guy, maybe that table's fine for me? Heck, very few of my albums are in great shape anyway.
On the other hand I'm considering going with a new Rega RP1. Something brand new that will be set up for me, thus saving me the hassle.

The question being, is one or the other of these that much better of a table that I would be much better off with that one? This will be going in my mancave since my main system isn't in a place that's TT friendly: 2 cats, 2 dogs, 3 kids....

Click to expand...

A properly set up, upgraded AR XA will flat out smoke the P-1. Hand cueing is the only issue. If you are OK with that, there should be no question.

A properly restored AR-XA will outperform many much more expensive tables.

Marc Morin is your go-to guy here on AK - he also makes available several inexpensive, easy-to-install custom parts that will really kick it up a few notches.

The AR XA and the Rega RP1 are both belt-drive turntables with pivoted arms, but that's where the similarities end. The design philosophies behind these two turntables are poles apart.

The AR has a subchassis, suspended on three damped springs, that carries the arm and the platter. This suspension is highly effective at keeping unwanted vibrations from coming up through the base and plinth and finding their way to the stylus. It does make the turntable prone to skipping if the floor below it is flexible, though. The inner platter is die-cast aluminum, precision-machined and dynamically balanced after casting so that it's concentric with the spindle and has the correct diameter for accurate speed. The outer platter is also cast and dynamically balanced. The result of this careful design and manufacture is a superb wow and flutter spec of 0.03% WRMS and a speed accuracy of +0.3% or better. The XA met the stringent National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) turntable specs (except for starting time, which was longer than allowed because the motor torque was low). The XA's tonearm used to get a lot of complaints, but is actually quite good if it's set up properly. It lacks a cueing control, which may be an issue for some audiophiles. It never was for me in the thirty-plus years I used an XA. It also lacks a tracking force scale, so you'll have to use an external balance to set the tracking force, and it has no anti-skate control.

The Rega RP1 has no suspension, so it needs to be installed away from vibration sources. The arm and platter bearing are rigidly mounted to a lightweight plinth, its materials and dimensions chosen to dissipate vibrational energy quickly to minimize coloration. The subplatter on the RP1 and all the other Rega models below $1500 MSRP is molded phenolic -- a design choice that has spawned a thriving cottage industry that makes aluminum replacement subplatters machined to tighter tolerances. The arm and platter bearings are of very high quality, and most people consider the tonearm to be better than the one on the AR. There have been many anecdotal reports that Rega models prior to the RP1 tended to run slightly fast and that some samples exhibited audible flutter. I haven't seen any such reports on the RP1, so perhaps Rega has made its manufacturing processes more consistent. Rega founder Roy Gandy doesn't believe in publishing specs, so there are no manufacturer's specifications to compare to AR's numbers.

The bottom line is that it's a matter of preference. Listen to both if you can and pick the one that sounds and works better for you. My preference would be the AR, but I'll be first to admit that a vintage XA is not for everyone.

beatcomber said:

A properly restored AR-XA will outperform many much more expensive tables.

Marc Morin is your go-to guy here on AK - he also makes available several inexpensive, easy-to-install custom parts that will really kick it up a few notches.

Click to expand...

+1:thmbsp::yes:

Dr Tinear said:

The XA's tonearm used to get a lot of complaints, but is actually quite good if it's set up properly. It lacks a cueing control, which may be an issue for some audiophiles. It never was for me in the thirty-plus years I used an XA. It also lacks a tracking force scale, so you'll have to use an external balance to set the tracking force, and it has no anti-skate control.

Click to expand...

Two additional comments...

The lack of cueing control really is not a big deal, unless you're a total klutz. Within a fairly short amount of time I developed the technique for moving the arm without causing any mishaps.

The lack of anti-skating makes the stock arm more compatible with high-compliance styli like the JICO SAS.

marcmorin said:

A properly set up, upgraded AR XA will flat out smoke the P-1. Hand cueing is the only issue. If you are OK with that, there should be no question.

Click to expand...

A P1 is not an RP1.

Art K. said:

A P1 is not an RP1.

Click to expand...

True that. Sorry for the typo.

Same money thrown at both tables, and the XA still smokes it. Hand cueing being the only advantage during play for the RP1. Placement of the tables as mentioned earlier in this thread is critical in their own ways for both tables.

Art K. said:

A P1 is not an RP1.

Click to expand...

Better platter and bearing, but it's still a basic Rega.

I'm not too worried about the hand cueing. I'll just stick to CD's if I've had more than 1 beer.
The AR is $250 and comes with a basic Shure cartridge. I'm confident in this dealer's ability and willingness to get it set up so that's not an issue.
If I were to leave that table close to stock, would ya'll still think it's the way to go?

marcmorin said:

True that. Sorry for the typo.

Placement of the tables as mentioned earlier in this thread is critical in their own ways for both tables.

Click to expand...

What do you mean by "in their own ways"? I understand about the need for more isolation with the Rega, but what might the AR need?

I wonder how many people have actually compared the turntables in question? If they haven't, then their comments are questionable.

Wes_in_VA said:

I'm not too worried about the hand cueing. I'll just stick to CD's if I've had more than 1 beer.
The AR is $250 and comes with a basic Shure cartridge. I'm confident in this dealer's ability and willingness to get it set up so that's not an issue.
If I were to leave that table close to stock, would ya'll still think it's the way to go?

Click to expand...

$250 is a bit on the high side, unless it's minty with dustcover and new stylus. Which Shure cartridge is included? That might change things somewhat.

It's not difficult to service and set up these tables by yourself. I bought mine a couple of years ago for $45 on CL and bought a replacement headshell on eBay for $50. A new belt was maybe $15 or so. It didn't take a lot of time or effort to get it cleaned up and running properly.

avole said:

I wonder how many people have actually compared the turntables in question? If they haven't, then their comments are questionable.

Click to expand...

I'm new enough to TT's that any feedback helps.
I'm lucky that I'll likely be able to compare side by side.

Fair enough. I haven't heard either turntable side by side, but I'd think the Rega arm a lot better than the one on the AR.

avole said:

Fair enough. I haven't heard either turntable side by side, but I'd think the Rega arm a lot better than the one on the AR.

Click to expand...

That was sort of my inkling going into asking this question, and I do like the idea that the Rega's brand new. BUT, that AR is soooo beautiful. If the sonics are there it would be really cool.

Wes_in_VA said:

That was sort of my inkling going into asking this question, and I do like the idea that the Rega's brand new. BUT, that AR is soooo beautiful. If the sonics are there it would be really cool.

Click to expand...

The sonics are definitely there. I could be happy having an AR-XA as my only table.

avole said:

Fair enough. I haven't heard either turntable side by side, but I'd think the Rega arm a lot better than the one on the AR.

Click to expand...

When the AR arm is upgraded with modern parts, not a chance.

Wes_in_VA said:

What do you mean by "in their own ways"? I understand about the need for more isolation with the Rega, but what might the AR need?

Click to expand...

What the AR needs is a solid foundation, and not springy floors. As the floors spring rate is different than the suspension rate. That's about the only mechanical/acoustical feedback it's not immune to.

I agree with Beatcomber that the asking price should have some answers behind it, such as what has been done to the table, and what cart it has.
If the table hasn't been upgraded, the asking price is based on the reputation of tables in top working order.

marcmorin said:

When the AR arm is upgraded with modern parts, not a chance.

Click to expand...

Have you done a side by side comparison, marcmoric. I'm a big fan of Rega arms, if not their turntables, but I'd think you'd have to spend quite a bit of time and effort getting the AR arm to sound as good.

Not a fan of AR arms, by the way. The turntable, with another arm such as a Linn or a Rega, now that's a whole different story!