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Wow! Best $50. Tweak in a Long Time!!

garpt

garpt

"Analog is BACK!"
Hi All,

I've been at this hobby a long time, so this did surprise me! I know the importance of a good, solid, stable base with a suspended turntable, especially such as the Thorens TD-145/150/160 series and the like. So, when I set up my specially made-for turntable audio rack, I set a nice 17" square of Italian ceramic floor tile (NOT the slippery polished finish) on the shelf under the Thorens for added stability and anti-resonance characteristics. I currently have nice cone type isolation feet with a custom cut 1/2" alderwood base on the turntable as well. I always thought it sounded real good. But, I'm (like most of us), a natural- born tweaker....
I read somewhere on AK(?) that someone had good results using a maple cutting board as a base for their turntable. So, having some spare time today, I headed to Bed & Bath and purchased their heaviest wooden cutting board. It is about 16"X18" square, and 2" thick. It is heavy. I replaced the tile with the cutting board. It IS significantly more solid. I did not expect, however, the difference in sound quality! Fuller, more weight, and about another octave of wonderful, tight bass, (one of my obsessions.) It is a dramatic difference, we are not talking like 5% better, we are like 20-30% better. Took me by surprise, for sure. I didn't expect THAT much of a difference!
If anyone tries this, use your 20% off online coupon, comes to $50.00.

Lastly, it looks REALLY cool and very substantial!!
I'm happy! :banana: :thmbsp:

-Gary
 
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I ALWAYS tell people that the most important thing you can do to make your turntable sound better is to put it on the stablest platform you can find (and make sure it's a good distance from your speakers). It makes a HUGE and unmistakable difference, especially on suspended belt-drives like your Thorens. Enjoy!
 
bangsezmax said:
I ALWAYS tell people that the most important thing you can do to make your turntable sound better is to put it on the stablest platform you can find (and make sure it's a good distance from your speakers). It makes a HUGE and unmistakable difference, especially on suspended belt-drives like your Thorens. Enjoy!
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bangs- see you've got a Thorens AND an SME 3009 ser. II (which I just picked up last week). Big difference in detail over the TP-16 arm! and I think the "better" arms are more sensitive to tweaks like this.
 
Ideally, a suspended turntable should never have to actually isolate the critical moving parts from external vibration.A good support is a great tweak. Enjoy!
 
melofelo said:
Ideally, a suspended turntable should never have to actually isolate the critical moving parts from external vibration.A good support is a great tweak. Enjoy!
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And what about a non-suspended table?

If a suspended table should never see external vibration, what is the suspension FOR? May as well bolt it directly to the support structure. (Mundane way of saying plinth)
 
The suspension actually does an excellent job of isolating it from acoustic feedback. if its set up right, you can knock on the side of the turntable and not even hear it in the speakers. The trick with them though is they need very solid mounting or they become obnoxiously sensitive to footfalls and really any motion in the room that might cause the thing to move.

I'd actually expect more improvements with solid mounting with regards to sound quality from a non-suspended table vs a suspended one since they are a lot more inclined to have problems with acoustic feedback.
 
Well done – you’ve reduced acoustic feedback, which is one of the major differences in sound between turntables, and one of the few things which isn’t measured in a turntable’s specifications (because of a lack of standardisation of measuring techniques, not because it isn’t known about).

However, I must correct you on one thing you said. They aren’t isolating cones you have, they are coupling cones. Cones couple, springs isolate. Those who call them isolating cones are wrong – they have never isolated anything, because they are solid, so they transmit all vibration. They do help to reduce acoustic feedback, but it’s not because of isolation. The reason cones work well in conjunction with a very heavy shelf, is that they couple the turntable base directly to the heavy shelf, so that it’s like having a turntable which weighs the same as the turntable plus the heavy shelf. Heavy turntables require more energy to vibrate than light turntables (Joe Grado’s old turntable papers on the vinylengine forum articles section explain this well), and so acoustic feedback is reduced as weight increases.

Joe explained several other methods of achieving a similar result, such as an outer frame of 2”x4” wood around the outside of an existing turntable base. Heavy, almost solid, wood bases were also used by some turntable manufacturers (e.g. JVC) on their best turntables, in place of hollow box bases, for a similar reason.

That’s why your turntable sounds better now – in essence, you’ve got the best of both worlds – the cones coupling the outer base of the turntable to a heavy board help reduce vibration in that section of the turntable because of increased weight, while the isolation springs help isolate the tonearm and platter from any vibration left in the outer base.:thmbsp:
 
ETI_5000 said:
However, I must correct you on one thing you said. They aren’t isolating cones you have, they are coupling cones. Cones couple, springs isolate. Those who call them isolating cones are wrong – they have never isolated anything, because they are solid, so they transmit all vibration. They do help to reduce acoustic feedback, but it’s not because of isolation. ""

..I didn't say it, the dozens of manufacturers and retailers who sell them say (and call them) "isolation cones". I think your correction is with them. I just bought them 'cause they look cool and seem to serve a useful purpose.
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garpt said:
..I didn't say it, the dozens of manufacturers and retailers who sell them say (and call them) "isolation cones". I think your correction is with them. I just bought them 'cause they look cool and seem to serve a useful purpose.
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Yes, I know they do.:D
 
Nice find. You might want to consider installing a set of spiked feet under that wood block, like those that Parts Express sells. They go for about $30 for a set of 4.
 
garpt said:
ETI_5000 said:
However, I must correct you on one thing you said. They aren’t isolating cones you have, they are coupling cones. Cones couple, springs isolate. Those who call them isolating cones are wrong – they have never isolated anything, because they are solid, so they transmit all vibration. They do help to reduce acoustic feedback, but it’s not because of isolation. ""

..I didn't say it, the dozens of manufacturers and retailers who sell them say (and call them) "isolation cones". I think your correction is with them. I just bought them 'cause they look cool and seem to serve a useful purpose.
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That's right! Although many who sell on eBay call them just - spikes, for exp. "Ebony Wood Spikes"

One picture of your mod would tell even more more words, btw. :yes:
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And what about a non-suspended table?

If a suspended table should never see external vibration, what is the suspension FOR? May as well bolt it directly to the support structure. (Mundane way of saying plinth)
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Same principle applies to both suspended and non suspended .If the turntable support(or its location) does most of the filtering of external vibration then there is less work for the plinth to do .It only has to contend with airborne vibration and vibrations within the turntable.

Or in other words...just because it has suspension built in..doesn't mean it's meant to sit on something that vibrates.
 
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I have my DD table on a 2 inch thick concrete paver, and it is placed on a three quarter inch thick anti-vibration mat that is on a solid wood cabinet.

Works well for me.

I think ceramic would be a pretty resonant substrate, if I ever replace the concrete paver it will be with black slate.

May even try wood :)
 
Maple shade sells the wood platforms that are expensive.They also sell the isoblocks that are cork and rubber laminations.I made my own wood platform out of two pieces of 3/4" glued together and have it sitting on 4 isoblocks which are sitting on a patio block.The wood platform and isoblocks made a notable improvement and was inexpensive.
Dave
 
Heavy turntables require more energy to vibrate than light turntables
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Some turntables like Rega take a slightly different approach...light but rigid. I.E. there is minimal mass in the plinth to store or transfer unwanted energy to the critical interaction between the stylus and record groove.
The skeletal sub structure of something like the suspended Ariston RD40 is another variation on the light but rigid approach.
The trick is to minimise any unwanted vibration or movement from entering the plinth in the first place.
 
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