Rega Planar 3 Upgrade decicions

I needed a break from my Thorens and wanted a decent TT to just "turn on and listen to". I've customized the Thorens and it seems like everytime I mess with it, it turns into a fiasco. I've always wanted a Planar 3 due to the simplicity of the design and the decent reviews for the price range, but now I'm in a spot. My Grado red still hums, and the upgrades I'm looking at are more than if I were to buy the Planar 25 or the VPI Jr. I was considering. It's not that I'm unhappy with the sound, it's that I can't let anything be. I have to customize everything I own or I'm not content. I'm looking to do the reference subplatter upgrade from Groove Tracer, new tonearm wiring and the 24v motor upgrade. Eventually in buying a new cartridge also. I have a Shure m97x that's almost new and an Acutex LPM 415, but the stylus is about 20 years old (although it sounds about as good as my Grado) so I'm good there for now. I'm slowly setting aside money to get this going, but I'm not sure what to do first, or is this all a waste? Dumping what could be a grand into a TT that I paid less than $400 for? Am I even going to notice the difference? I want this TT, and I want it at it's full potential, but I'm concerned about the cost to sonic improvement value. I'm using it with a Marantz 2225, the first PS audio phono pre, and Klipsch KG4's that I just rebuilt. I've also got a 2216b and a Pioneer SX 950 to switch to, but so far the 2225 seems to have the best sound for my ears.

I think the machined sub platter is a very worthwhile upgrade, regardless of what you paid for the Planar 3. I also think the motor upgrade and the white belt are good options. However, a used P5 minus what you could get for the Planar 3 might be more economical. In any case, I'd recommend a better cartridge. Something like a Dynavector 10x5 could make a huge difference.

I have a Rega Planar 2 that I replaced the original motor with the latest 24V motor and the TT PSU. Wow what an improvement. I already had a Deep Groove machined subplatter but it did not create the improvement the new motor did. The motor upgrade was the biggest improvement and the power supply upgrade was icing on the cake. I suggest the motor upgrade first and the next greatest upgrade was a lowered counterweight. I chose the Michell Technoweight counterweight. Tracking has improved greatly and for the first time Grado's are amazing in a Rega arm.

Between a better tracking arm and a more stable speed table I think you will be pleased.

JM - Have you ever removed your Deep Groove sub platter? I was very surprised by how much difference I noticed when I removed the Groove Tracer sub platter from my P5.

manogeorge said:

I needed a break from my Thorens and wanted a decent TT to just "turn on and listen to". I've customized the Thorens and it seems like everytime I mess with it, it turns into a fiasco. I've always wanted a Planar 3 due to the simplicity of the design and the decent reviews for the price range, but now I'm in a spot. My Grado red still hums, and the upgrades I'm looking at are more than if I were to buy the Planar 25 or the VPI Jr. I was considering. It's not that I'm unhappy with the sound, it's that I can't let anything be. I have to customize everything I own or I'm not content. I'm looking to do the reference subplatter upgrade from Groove Tracer, new tonearm wiring and the 24v motor upgrade. Eventually in buying a new cartridge also. I have a Shure m97x that's almost new and an Acutex LPM 415, but the stylus is about 20 years old (although it sounds about as good as my Grado) so I'm good there for now. I'm slowly setting aside money to get this going, but I'm not sure what to do first, or is this all a waste? Dumping what could be a grand into a TT that I paid less than $400 for? Am I even going to notice the difference? I want this TT, and I want it at it's full potential, but I'm concerned about the cost to sonic improvement value. I'm using it with a Marantz 2225, the first PS audio phono pre, and Klipsch KG4's that I just rebuilt. I've also got a 2216b and a Pioneer SX 950 to switch to, but so far the 2225 seems to have the best sound for my ears.

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I was kind of in the same boat as you except I had a RP3. I ended up selling my RP3 and buying a B stock VPI Scout. If you are looking at investing 1K in the P3 I would definitely think about this option as you will be in for the about the same $ if you can find a B stock.

I have to say that the Scout is amazing and blows (blew) my RP3 out of the water and I liked the RP3.

Assuming it still meets these specs...the suspension is good and the diamond isn't worn...

M415STR
response 20-40khz
channel separation 32 db @ 1khz
output 3.5 mv
channel balance within 1db @ 1khz
dc resistance 710 ohms
load resistance 47 kohm
stylus Perfect STR
compliance 36 x 10-6 cm/dyne
tracking force 1-2 g
weight 4.0 g

...then the Acutex Tripole LMP 415 with the original STR stylus should still smoke pretty much any single or dual moving magnet cartridge out there.

Doesn't seem like a wise move to dump a $1K into the P3, got yourself a money pit. The suggestion re the VPI Scout makes more sense and has more sonic potential.

It's hard to take anything majick47 says seriously, since all his comments in threads that involve a Rega seem to show he thinks he's pretty funny. The turntable isn't any more of a money pit than any other. Any turntable will need a cartridge and there are many turntables that could benefit from upgrades if you're so inclined.

Bob_in_OKC said:

JM - Have you ever removed your Deep Groove sub platter? I was very surprised by how much difference I noticed when I removed the Groove Tracer sub platter from my P5.

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I have not A/B'ed the subplatters since first receiving it years ago. I remember it making an improvement in speed accuracy. Your P5 has the rigid mount motor and when I switched from the loose mounted motor to the rigid mount 24V motor that was an amazing change in speed stability. Judging by the improvement the rigid mount 24V motor to replace the old loose mounted motor would be my first tweak if I had to do it again. Down the road the new subplatter is worth considering.

The next tweak is a lowered counterweight which really improves tracking and in my experience reduced surface noise. In my opinion with an older Rega Planar using the loose mounted motor these are the two tweaks that would give the greatest sonic improvements.

Ill +1 JohnMichael

personally rather than upgrade all parts of the planar 3 (I was pretty put off by the price of the TT-PSU) I sold the table so I could play with a suspended table. Those two upgrades seemed reasonable enough to me though and I probably would have been better off just going for those but that's in the past now.

in all honesty I don't know if you put 1000 onto a planar 3 where you would be in relation to turntables costing that price because I've never heard a table that pricey. but when I recall the plinth and the design, I think if I had to bet my money on it I'd go for a idler in some 75 lb monster base or if I had to ever move the damn thing a VPI. The implementation of the Planar 3 is elegant but the design itself is so simple I'm not sure it can reach the same potential as one of the huge modern tables or something that weighs as much as the rock of gibralter.

good luck on whatever road you go down.

I lived with the same question a few years back. I had a Planar 2 with Incognito RB250, Expressimo Heavyweight and (stock) glass platter.

Here's my thread:
"Help me decide: Head down the Rega upgrade path, or move to a new 'table?"
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269842

After several months of happy listening (it constituted a significant upgrade from my previous Pioneer PL-550) I began to get tired of accepting its wonky speed (mostly on sustained chords). I traced the issue down a a slight bit of runnout on the plastic sub-platter.

Long story short, rather than dropping $200+ on a GT sub platter and still have the $150 motor upgrade to look forward to, I sold it for what I paid for it ($400), added $250 and picked up a Well Tempered Record Player which I have found to perform on a whole other rarefied level!

Granted $650 is an unusually low price for a WTRP, but the point is I was left with the opinion that it would make no sense to drop another $400 upgrading a $400 Rega table just to get it to operate in a way that was not distractingly sub-par.

EDIT TO ADD:

redisburning said:

The implementation of the Planar 3 is elegant but the design itself is so simple I'm not sure it can reach the same potential as one of the huge modern tables or something that weighs as much as the rock of Gibraltar..

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This seems to be a common misunderstanding about the Rega design intention. Its lightweight/low mass stature is what makes them perform as well as they do. Massive 'tables are built on the principle that you want to absorb vibration and not have it return to the vital parts of the machine. Regas OTOH, are intentionally lightweight so that vibration drains away, off of/out of the 'table. It's a design that works pretty well IMO but isolation is key; a wall shelf is often the way to go.

I found my Planar 2 was so low-mass the plinth was practically like a microphone membrane! So isolation was key. (I used a sandbox instead of a wall shelf)

well, for my own curiosity, can a lightweight design actually be built to perform to the same level as a top of the line modern table?

I mean, there are hanging weights, flywheels and all sorts of clever implements that have been put on tables today that should all add up to absolute speed stability, huge effective toque on the platter and near immunity to feedback.

also, shouldn't the table have a way to isolate vibration from the tonearm? where does the Rega siphon that vibration to? the feet?

redisburning said:

well, for my own curiosity, can a lightweight design actually be built to perform to the same level as a top of the line modern table?

(...)

also, shouldn't the table have a way to isolate vibration from the tonearm? where does the Rega siphon that vibration to? the feet?

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Yes, the Rega drains vibration through its feet. At least that's my assumption as there really isn't anywhere else for it to go (mechanically anyway). And the feet on my Planar Two were tall and supple and there were 3 of them (2 in front and 1 in back)

As for comparing the Rega to a modern 'table, that's a bit of a non-starter as Rega currently makes some rather high performing 'tables don't they? The P9 is four grand. (I guess it depends on how esoteric you consider "high performing")

Brett a said:

As for comparing the Rega to a modern 'table, that's a bit of a non-starter as Rega currently makes some rather high performing 'tables don't they? The P9 is four grand. (I guess it depends on how esoteric you consider "high performing")

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I suppose that's fair.

But I am curious if the maximum end of that type of lightweight table can really equal things like the Clearaudio Statement, SME 30/2 or VPI HR-X1 if you threw equivalent amounts of cash at it.

JohnMichael said:

I have a Rega Planar 2 that I replaced the original motor with the latest 24V motor and the TT PSU. Wow what an improvement.

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John, please help me to understand why a new motor made a great improvement.:scratch2:
I have a couple of Regas (2 and 3) and I like the Rega Planar 2 as is - very much.
Thanks.

I would concur with a VPI for that kind of money or go up the Rega food chain and get a P5 used which would be a better tweak candidate.

manogeorge said:

My Grado red still hums, and the upgrades I'm looking at are more than if I were to buy the Planar 25 or the VPI Jr.

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Grado cartridges can produce hum if they're used on cheap turntables with unshielded motors. So any sort of mod to your Rega (aside from shielding the motor with Mu-metal) won't fix the problem.

I run a couple of Grado cartridges on several of my direct drive turntables. Zero issues with hum.

Finding a better turntable seems the best option.

RDecartridge said:

John, please help me to understand why a new motor made a great improvement.:scratch2:
I have a couple of Regas (2 and 3) and I like the Rega Planar 2 as is - very much.
Thanks.

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The original motor was soft mounted with an O ring and this allowed small movements in the motor which affected speed stability. The new motor is rigid mounted and tuned to have less vibrations. Since the pulley is not moving there is no slight fluctuations of speed.

To hear for myself the difference in the two motors I recorded a cd with the new motor. This cd was part of the music I had recorded prevously using the old motor so I could listen in the car. When I play the old motor cd I have imaging that wanders slightly and some confusion in complicated music. The new motor gives the playback a stronger more centered image with greater space between instruments. Bass is stronger and better defined. I am very pleased with the new motor.

also, shouldn't the table have a way to isolate vibration from the tonearm? where does the Rega siphon that vibration to? the feet?

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I think they tried to minimise resonances within the arm by tapering the tube..removing as many joints as possible with a single cast design and making the pivot bearing tolerances fine enough to reduce friction to a minimum without any bearing chatter, freeplay or binding. The rigid coupling of the arm to the lightweight 'lossy' plinth would suggest the plinth acts as an energy sink or drain for the arm...without the feedback that coupling it to a denser structure might incur. The feet act more like isolation devices than an energy sink. There should be three small extrusions at the top of each feet to minimise contact between the plinth and what it sits on..with the rubber(sorbothane ?) compound of the feet themselves acting as a basic vibration filter.
The foot closest to the rear may have succumbed to some compression of the little extrusions over time and increased the surface area between the foot and the underside of the plinth which will make the plinth more susceptible to external vibration.
Replacing that foot might be a good idea if it has compressed..or maybe use some small bits of rubber in between to restore the minimal contact area of the original extrusions.

Again I'm not making an attempt at humor, just trying to tell the OP he's going down an exspensive one way street to a dead end with that table.