Help with Custom Electra and Xp-9 b speakers

I am about a month into vintage audio. Recently acquired a Custom Electra E-492 console and a pair of Fisher xp-9b speakers. All in good working order. I have the xp-9b's connected on the WS1 terminals to listen to the console speakers and the xp-9b's at the same time. But the level of sound from the xp-9b's is almost imperceptible. Any ideas on what the issue is or another possible configuration with the console's terminals to enjoy both sets of speakers at the same time? Thank you.

Hello and welcome to AudioKarma. Does your 21-R have standard screw terminals labeled for external speakers? If so, I would try those instead of the WS1 RCA jacks. If you are still not getting much volume from your XP-9B speakers - assuming you have tried them with a known working receiver or amp to verify they function correctly - then I would check the resistors R103A/B and R104A/B. (See diagram below from the 31-R which should be configured similar to the 21-R.)

Note that these resistors are in series with both the WS1 jacks AND the external speaker screw terminals - presumably to reduce the volume of any outboard speakers so that the main speakers are dominant. You might consider bypassing those resistors if you want to hear your outboard speakers at full volume.

Also welcome to Audio Karma.
I had a similar issue when I connected another set of high quality speakers to the WS ports on my Ambassor console or to the external screw terminals. The console speakers were considerably louder than the external speakers and the additional speakers did nothing to enhance the overall sound quality.
What I did was to put in a speaker volume control unit that I purchased from Radio Shack. I mounted a shallow standard electrical box on the inside back of the console and then cut the speaker leads to the console speakers and wired them to the new volume control. Now I can adjust the console speakers to match the output of the any external speakers. The proceedure works PERFECTLY and the sound with all the speakers working in unison is fantastic. Hope this helps.
Good luck
George

The WS-1 speakers are a Mid/High speaker. It's not designed for FULL RANGE. It enhances the mids and highs, due to the current height of the console mids and highs (in other words it brings the mids and highs out into the open) and enhance separation. I use them on my CEVII, or FUTURA VI as they are real bassy with just the stock speakers. The resistor limits the amount of current / voltage to the speaker so you don't do a Marty McFly with it. It also presents a load to the output section. These are the STANDEE Brand resistors next to the output crew points. Note that the "B" have a 10 oHm resistor and the WS-1's have a 15oHm resistor. The WS-1's are in parallel with the Mains. The WS-1's IIRC are 8ohm as are the console's speakers.

Mids and highs are fairly directional and aren't conducive to console use if you are sitting in a "sweet spot". Technically unless the speakers are adjustable (tilt or pan) there really isn't a sweet spot.

With the WS-1's out in the open, you can tilt and pan them and sitting about 6-8 ft away, build a "sweet spot".

There should be a EXT SPKR jack/screw(s) next to the main spkr connectors. Use those with all spkrs. The WS-1 jacks are for WS-1's only.


Presume all speakers are 8 ohm. A & B are parallel. The Standee are in series.

this is what the calulator gave me for all the permutations.

www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/series-parallel-resistor-calculator.php

Use of Spkr "A" = 8ohm

Use of spkr "B" 18ohms (1-8ohm + 10oHm in series)

Use of WS-1 only = 23.1oHm (1-8oHm +15Ohm in series)

Use of SPKR A and WS-1 = 5.932 (8ohm + (8ohm + 15oHm in series))

SPKR "A" + SPKR B = 5.6oHm

SPKR A with WS1 and SPKR B = 4.3oHms (8+(8+15 in series) + (8+10 in series))


If the R-21 doesn't have "B" plugs, If you MUST run the XP-9's, run them in Series with the Console spkrs or get an A-B switch. The Early Solid State Germanium transistors weren't really stable enough to handle more than 1 pair of spkrs, especially in parallel which drops the impedance to below 5 ohms. Best bet is to wire them in Series. This will give you 16oHm impedance seen by the receiver.

Larry

Try the XP-9's by themselves using the INTERNAL spkr terms. Carefully insert the bare wires into the Molex for the Internal's. If the XP-9's are still not coming up to speed, then it's a spkr problem. (basically you bypassed the resistor on the WS1 part of the circuit. )

TheRed1: Thanks for the bypass idea. I did this and it worked fine. Do I have to be concerned with connecting the Main Console Speakers and the Xp-9b's on the same terminals? If I hook up to the remote speaker terminals, I am forced to choose between one set or the other with the Remote Speaker switch. Maybe better to decide if I need the additional speakers or not.

George: I like the separate volume control and if I keep them connected, I may be going to that next. Thank you

Larry, You bring up a good point. I ran the console all day yesterday with just the console speakers. I did not even need the Xp's. Perhaps the better idea is to use them on a different (non-console) set-up. Thank you