Are You Kidding Me !!!!!!!!!! Forte Upgrade

sony6060

sony6060

Super Member
Ok, I do not normally get over enthused, but SET12 mods to the Klipsch Forte is insanely over the top. And, this is 'out of the box'- no capacitor break-in. Plus, the original crossovers have the SoniCraft capacitor upgrade with Erse 47uF bass shunt capacitor. To make sure there is no question here, I installed one crossover at first and two of us listened in mono & switched the balance control from one side (new x-over) to the other side (stock x-over). Of course, after installing the second crossover stereo was a knock out.

First, the SET12 crossover opens up details effortlessly- across the board.

The bass is now tight and fast. I did not think the bass was a little muted & not precise before. Now, Klipsch bass is clearly in another level of performance. Simply no comparison.

The midrange is also improved. Details come forth in spades, yet not the least bit edgy even with a horn. The midrange is so much improved- very musical, airy and accurate. The old crossover is simply dead. (The best tap on the German C core audio transformers with the 1.5 dB tap steps is #5. #6 tap is a little bright on some record passages).

The tweeter I have is a Crites titanium. So, not poor in the least with old crossover with SoniCraft caps. However, with the new crossover it has improved too.

I have owned a few speakers including higher-end Scan Speaks. Scan Speakers are not muddy sounding in the least. With the factory stock Forte I liked the dynamics of horns, but some micro details were not there. That is completely untrue now.

I have no idea what a different speaker set would cost that could compare with these upgraded Klipsch Forte. The $750 crossovers are worth evey penny. SET12 is right, I have no interest hearing a stock Klipsch Forte either now.

Thank you SET12 for all your work tuning these Forte speakers. What a class act. HeYah. :D
 
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Dave C said:
Yup, but there are still many non believers out there!
Click to expand...

Perhaps my post will convince others this is not really an expensive upgrade compared to buying tube amps, higher-end turntables, etc. Dollar for performance is astounding. These upgraded Forte speakers also way outperforms Cornwalls.
 
Dave C said:
Yup, but there are still many non believers out there!
Click to expand...


All it takes for non believers is to hear , then they believe :D

Most old timers say when hearing my Forte' is , "never heard a Klipsch sound so smooth"

The other day I downloaded the HDTracks/AudiogoN 24/192 sampler for $4

It was either cut 5 or 6 with a drum solo hard right on the soundstage... The drum was 4 feet outside my Rt speaker and 3 feet back. It was incredible! My son as well as I said "WOW" at the same time
 
congrats!
i'd love to hear them.

been wanting to upgrade my xovers on either my chorus or forte ii.
but probably can't go the air core route.
way over budget.
though i bet the sound is amazing
 
Are you running all of SET12's crossover components?

I'd so - and maybe the man himself can chime in - which of the upgraded components do you suppose make the greatest difference, in order of importance?
 
l-myers said:
Are you running all of SET12's crossover components?

I'd so - and maybe the man himself can chime in - which of the upgraded components do you suppose make the greatest difference, in order of importance?
Click to expand...

The parts are SET12 approved. The tweeter caps are Mundorf Supreme. I did upgrade to Mundorf silver/oil for the critical midrange where our ears are most sensitive. I stayed with Creek inductors per his design. I slightly cheated on 12ga for woofer, but likely splitting hairs vs 10ga or perhaps not. I have had experienced performance issues (just does not sound the best) with Solen as specified by SET12. Although shunt applications vs series are normally less critical, I upgraded to a Obbligato capacitor for woofer shunt circuit. Perhaps a performance trade for that 10ga inductor. Of course, the German C core autotransformers were a no brainer. Tweeter resistor is Kiwame.

As for most important, I do not believe any less than what I built is worth it. The bass & midrange performance is light years ahead. One would not believe bass is so critical, but musical & tight bass is important. The tweeter is the least effected, but still better. I heard the tweeter on SoniCraft upgrade capacitors, not original capacitors.
 
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Dave C said:
When I did my SET12 recommended upgrades I did this thread about it.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=288022
Look down about 4 posts and see my response back 3 years ago. All Mundorf Supremes with the North Creeks in mine. Looks like we both heard about the same thing!
Click to expand...

Interesting read. The midrange upgrade to silver-oil is $110 vs $40 for the Supreme. But I only wanted to go in once vs wondering 'what if'. My ears are older than yours, but being a paper pusher in a quiet environment for years I am still good to 14kHz and no serious dips in the midrange. (Ya, that still works too if a little sluggish at times).
 
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Nice job

Gratz on your rebuild!:thmbsp: All this crossover work has my brain spinning with ideas.:yes:

I have a question for you, what does the 47uf bass shut do in the crossover? Curious people need to learn these things. :scratch2:
 
jessearias said:
Gratz on your rebuild!:thmbsp: All this crossover work has my brain spinning with ideas.:yes:

I have a question for you, what does the 47uf bass shut do in the crossover? Curious people need to learn these things. :scratch2:
Click to expand...

I have no idea. Only kidding. Being located after the inductor that passes only bass frequencies, the capacitor limits higher frequencies by shunting (passing) those frequencies to ground vs the speaker. This establishes a LC circuit of two filters.
 
sony6060 said:
Ok, I do not normally get over enthused, but SET12 mods to the Klipsch Forte is insanely over the top. And, this is 'out of the box'- no capacitor break-in. Plus, the original crossovers have the SoniCraft capacitor upgrade with Erse 47uF bass shunt capacitor. To make sure there is no question here, I installed one crossover at first and two of us listened in mono & switched the balance control from one side (new x-over) to the other side (stock x-over). Of course, after installing the second crossover stereo was a knock out.

First, the SET12 crossover opens up details effortlessly- across the board.

The bass is now tight and fast. I did not think the bass was a little muted & not precise before. Now, Klipsch bass is clearly in another level of performance. Simply no comparison.

The midrange is also improved. Details come forth in spades, yet not the least bit edgy even with a horn. The midrange is so much improved- very musical, airy and accurate. The old crossover is simply dead. (The best tap on the German C core audio transformers with the 1.5 dB tap steps is #5. #6 tap is a little bright on some record passages).

The tweeter I have is a Crites titanium. So, not poor in the least with old crossover with SoniCraft caps. However, with the new crossover it has improved too.

I have owned a few speakers including higher-end Scan Speaks. Scan Speakers are not muddy sounding in the least. With the factory stock Forte I liked the dynamics of horns, but some micro details were not there. That is completely untrue now.

I have no idea what a different speaker set would cost that could compare with these upgraded Klipsch Forte. The $750 crossovers are worth evey penny. SET12 is right, I have no interest hearing a stock Klipsch Forte either now.

Thank you SET12 for all your work tuning these Forte speakers. What a class act. HeYah. :D
Click to expand...

Thank You sony6060,

Guess, I wasn't kidding was I?

But it is hard for people to even begin to imagine what is possible. The beauty of the Forte network is its simplicity and its relatively low value part specs.

When I started I knew the Forte was musical and after hearing a friends DIY ALK Universal for his LaScala's. I was shocked at the improvement which made them very listenable with bass that would not suggest a 50hz roll off point.

I thought I should give it a try and ran across the North Creek site where my eyes extended out of my head. A little reading into Georges background and his Inductor FAQ's http://www.northcreekmusic.com/COILS.html convinced me some 10yrs ago to give it a try. Later I discovered Steen Duelund and his work where he often had more money tied up into his networks then the cost of his drivers for his speaker research. Of course better drivers help out, but better drivers with a wimpy network only goes so far. Both go hand in hand. But when the drivers show promise as in the Forte then one can extract much more then they were ever intended for.

In fact I dare say I would have to spend an easy 3-4 times more for a newly manufactured than what I stuck into them to find the same level satisfaction and that's if I can.

Its pretty neat to see someone like your self react to these mods. If you have the opportunity to get another pair of stock speakers to compare to its a lot of fun seeing peoples facial expressions, or asking them what do think and they are totally speechless.

Really as I have said I have learned not to expect much from networks that have parts that are a few pennies or dollars. High dollar associated electronics are no substitute for poor quality networks IMO.

The neat thing about doing these kind of mods to stock networks is that most Klipsch will see the same benefits.

Happy listening :music:

SET12
 
Yes

You were not kidding. My instincts knew you were not overstating the performance. I could also hear potential it in my Forte speakers before mods. I do say the result did exceed my expectations. Great sounding 'out of the box', does capacitor break-in time have play here?
 
I would expect ting to continue to settle in for as much as 3 -4 weeks with all day play Most will come around in the first week. I have had customers of my interconnects report burn changes out pat 8 weeks bu only in very high rez rigs Oh like yours is now. Congratulations and well done . Enjoy. Best regards Moray James.
 
jessearias said:
I have a question for you, what does the 47uf bass shut do in the crossover? Curious people need to learn these things.
Click to expand...


Just what sony6060 said... Mr Crites, I believe, called the cap a 'garbage can' :D

IMO people should 'play' with this cap. Try lowering the size from 47uF to suit their taste and room. Of course it is easier to experiment with external XOs
 
sony6060 said:
Thanks. I may go Duelund.
Click to expand...

They generate another level of smoothness for the Forte.

The reason for this is their negative temperature coefficient.

One wouldn't think it would be a big deal. But it is! most other resistors have a positive coefficient which limits dynamic impact.

Th job of this resistor is to sink the rising impedance of the tweeter. The Duelund does just that. It wasn't subtle.

They have two models one is cast as they call it meaning it is encased in epoxy resin I believe to quell any form of resonance. Since my networks are outboard it is much of an issue but then again power applied has a way of mechanically inducing resonance. Which is why the the North Creek inductors are varnish impregnated.

SET12
 
sony6060 said:
I have no idea. Only kidding. Being located after the inductor that passes only bass frequencies, the capacitor limits higher frequencies by shunting (passing) those frequencies to ground vs the speaker. This establishes a LC circuit of two filters.
Click to expand...

Another way to look in my mind is that it shorts the woofer out as the frequency climbs.
 
sony6060 said:
The old crossover is simply dead.
Click to expand...

LOL, man you got that right. The statement cracked me up :D


sony6060 said:
"The best tap on the German C core audio transformers with the 1.5 dB tap steps is #5. #6 tap is a little bright on some record passages"
Click to expand...

I would think the #5 would be louder then the #6 as my taps measured, cut more going up in #'s. The only way to tell is to measure them. Its easy to get miss led on the C-Cores connections. If the #0 (ground) and #15 are reversed then the value cut is different. I messed up one day going back and forth between it and the Crites. Wondering what the heck!



SET12
 
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