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In need of lesson in Speaker Impedence

PioneerHPMLuver

PioneerHPMLuver

Well-Known Member
Can anyone teach me exactly what happens when you hook two pairs of speakers to an amplifier?

IE..do the four 6 Ohm Speakers look like 3 Ohm to the amplifier?
And do four 8 Ohm speakers look like 4 Ohm?

And do receivers and amplifiers using the A/B speaker connectors make them to be hooked up in series or parrallel and then what happens?

Does any one know if a Pioneer SX-626 can handle four 6 Ohm Speakers?

My apologies in advance for my ignorance on this subject.

Jim
 
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Can anyone teach me exactly what happens when you hook two pairs of speakers to an anplifier?
Click to expand...

Do you mean what happens when you use both A and B speakers together? Most amps/receivers will run them in parallel I believe, which will drop the impedence that the amp "sees." If you are running 2 pairs that are rated at the same impedence, that load will be halved if they are run in parallel (most likely). If they are run in series, then you can simply add the impedences. As Greg showed you, impedence adds in series, inverses add in parallel.
For 8 ohm speakers...

Series: 8 + 8 = 16 ohms
Parallel: 1/8 + 1/8 = 1/(1/4) -> 4 ohms

I hope I got the math right...

By four 6-ohm speakers, do you mean 2 pairs? If so, you probably CAN run them on your SX-636, but it will probably run warm, and I would not recommend cranking on it. What speakers are these?
 
The owners manual will normally tell you how the amp/receiver handles multiple speaker pairs, but wiring the circuits so that A + B speakers are in parallel is the typical way it is done with most equipment.

In your case that means you are effectively proposing to use a 3 Ohm load to your receiver.

This is not a recommended configuration, and could cause damage to your amp, especially if you try to drive the speakers at high listening levels.
 
Inspiribomb said:
Do you mean what happens when you use both A and B speakers together? Most amps/receivers will run them in parallel I believe, which will drop the impedence that the amp "sees." If you are running 2 pairs that are rated at the same impedence, that load will be halved if they are run in parallel (most likely). If they are run in series, then you can simply add the impedences. As Greg showed you, impedence adds in series, inverses add in parallel.
For 8 ohm speakers...

Series: 8 + 8 = 16 ohms
Parallel: 1/8 + 1/8 = 1/(1/4) -> 4 ohms

I hope I got the math right...

By four 6-ohm speakers, do you mean 2 pairs? If so, you probably CAN run them on your SX-636, but it will probably run warm, and I would not recommend cranking on it. What speakers are these?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input... I have a pair of Energy 3.1e and Energy 4.1e both 6 Ohms...So is that 12 Ohms? The speaker connectors for the Receiver say 4-16 Ohms...
I was concerend that four 6 Ohm speakers was too much of a load...So I may go with Some HPM 40's and 60's...
I have the Energy speakers hooked up now but noticed when I turned it up with both speakers switched on, the meter lamp for the tuner dimmed a little with bass. So like you say I don't want to damage this receiver. Just got it back from Merrylander Saturday...
 
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hpsenicka said:
The owners manual will normally tell you how the amp/receiver handles multiple speaker pairs, but wiring the circuits so that A + B speakers are in parallel is the typical way it is done with most equipment.

In your case that means you are effectively proposing to use a 3 Ohm load to your receiver.

This is not a recommended configuration, and could cause damage to your amp, especially if you try to drive the speakers at high listening levels.
Click to expand...

I will definetly take your advice and keep the volume down. Right now this is a bedroom system that gets played at night when I am dozing off....
 
You are most likely running a 3-ohm load, and your little SX-636 probably isn't too happy about it. I'd recommend running a single pair of those speakers.
 
PioneerHPMLuver said:
Thanks for the input... I have a pair of Energy 3.1e and Energy 4.1e both 6 Ohms...So is that 12 Ohms? The speaker connectors for the Receiver say 4-16 Ohms...
I was concerend that four 6 Ohm speakers was too much of a load...So I may go with Some HPM 40's and 60's...
I have the Energy speakers hooked up know but noticed when I turned it up with both speakers switched on, the meter lamp for the tuner dimmed a little with bass. So like you say I don't want to damage this receiver. Just got it back from Merrylander Saturday...
Click to expand...

Sorry...I misread...then the two Energy speakers together on A/B are 3 Ohms...Not good...Will make changes...
Thanks for all the input...More is welcome!
Jim
 
The basic thing to remember is that the more speakers you run in parallel, the closer it gets to being a short across the amps output. Although this gets more power out of most solid state amps, it also means there is more power flowing and, hence, more heat.

Doug
 
PioneerHPMLuver said:
Can anyone teach me exactly what happens when you hook two pairs of speakers to an anplifier?

IE..do the four 6 Ohm Speakers look like 3 Ohm to the amplifier?
And do four 8 Ohm speakers look like 4 Ohm?

And do receivers and amplifiers using the A/B speaker connectors make them to be hooked up in series or parrallel and then what happens?

Does any one know if a Pioneer SX-626 can handle four 6 Ohm Speakers?

My apologies in advance for my ignorance on this subject.

Jim
Click to expand...

This should tell you everything you need and more. This is a great learning site.

http://www.bcae1.com/

Look at number 58 on the right hand menu.
 
Parallel: Hooking two speakers up with "jumper wires" + to + and - to - and then to one channel of your amp. This would present a 3 ohm load.
Series: The same speakers hooked up - (first speaker) to + (second speaker, jumper again) then to your amp using the + of first speaker and the - of the second, 12 ohm load.
I hope this clears the "mud" a bit. :)
 
One way to tell if your A/B speakers are parallel or series.

Hook up ONE pair of speakers to your amp's "B" terminals. Then, select just your "B" speakers on the amp.

If they don't work, your A/B speakers are connected in a series configuration.

I'll use two speakers, one of 8 ohms and one of 4 ohms ror this math example.

The speakers impedance wil be (r1 + r2) the sum of the two speakers

If they do work, your A/B speakers are wired in parallel. The impedance presented by the two speakers will be::

((r1 * r2) / (r1 + r2)) or ((8 * 4 ) / (8 + 4)) or (32 / 12) or 2.66 ohms.
 
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Inspiribomb said:
For 8 ohm speakers...

Series: 8 + 8 = 16 ohms
Parallel: 1/8 + 1/8 = 1/(1/4) -> 4 ohms

I hope I got the math right...
Click to expand...
Yup you did, at least the end result was correct. Only thing that was not right was that you should have wrote parallel like this

1 / (1/8 + 1/8) = 1/(1/4) -> 4 ohms

I know this from guitar cabinets where you really have to know your math if you want to do anything with them :)
 
Interesting...my SX-626 has the speaker switch for "A", "B" & "C". I currently have only a pair hooked up to "A" and "B". If I switch to "A" & "C" I hear the "A" Speakers only.
I wonder why the Pioneer still plays the "A" speakers in the "A" & "C" switched positioned when no speakers are hooked up to "C"?
With my Kenwoon KR-9400 I have the same set up and if I switch to "A" & "C" I hear nothing...(which is what I expect)
 
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I'd suspect the Pioneer 626 connects multiple speaker sets in parallel, the Kenwood 9400 in series.

If you have two resistors in parallel (one representing, say, the left A speaker, the other the left C), and clip one off (like disconnecting the C speakers), all the current flows through the remaining resistor. If two resistors are in series, and you clip one off, you've broken the whole circuit, and no current can flow through the remaining resistor.

I'm sure that the Pioneer unit, from the "Golden Age", does it right, and connects speaker pairs in parallel. Is the Kenwood an '80's vintage unit? I know with my 80's era receiver, two sets of speakers are connected in series, and it's a pain in the butt. Also, in the Kenwood owner's manual, do they require different connections if you want to run A or (A and C) vs. A or C?

Manufacturers should have had *their* reproductive resistors clipped off for connecting speaker pairs in series.

A nice analogy often made to resistors are water pipes. A skinny pipe restricts flow and is like a high resistance; a fatter one allows more flow and is like a low one.
 
You've been supplied with some great info here. That automotive sound site is a great link by the way.

The only thing I might add is that speaker impedance ratings are "nominal" impedance ratings. A woofer's actual impedance varies with frequency. However, at some point in the frequency range that woofer will be at its nominal impedance or might even drop lower. I wouldn't use any consumer grade amp at less than a four Ohm nominal impedance rating per channel for the reasons already stated. You "may" get by with two 6 Ohm rated speakers, especially when you consider the additional impedance of the cables and the crossover components, if it's a passive crossover, but it's not worth the risk, IMHO.
 
Two in parallel = x/2 (i.e. 2ea - 8ohm speakers results in a 4ohm load)
Three in parallell = x/3
Four in parallel = x/4
etc,etc

In series they always add. ( and mess up the sound real bad)
 
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