Record Cleaning Machine Best Practices?

soulmanure · Jun 30, 2013

I got my Record Doctor V about a week ago, and it's been a godsend, I have to say. I was doing the dent-puller/Dawn/sink wash/let-it-dry dance, but this is levels above in results. I've attacked a good forty or fifty albums now, and I've come up with a few questions along the way, so I thought I'd throw them out to the community to see what y'all think.

First of all, I'm curious about what you do with brand new vinyl. Do you clean it or just consider it clean enough? I'm tending towards cleaning and then putting it in a Diskeeper.
Second, how slowly do you go on a manual turn when vacuuming, and how many revolutions do you make? I go moderately slow four times.
Third, when do you replace the felt on the vacuum (I have no ideas on this).
Fourth, what else do you do in your cleaning ritual?

Thanks all in advance, and heck if this ain't fun!

DC · Jun 30, 2013

New Vinyl: I let my ears be the judge. If new vinyl sounds like it needs extra help, I'll run it through the RCM; otherwise, I just dry brush it on the platter before play.

Speed: My DIY RCM is set at about 6-8 RPM. I use two passes.

Felt: I don't know; I've never replaced mine! Funny, I actually looked at it earlier today (for probably the first time in a year or more) and it still seems OK to me.

Ritual: Liberal application of Disc Doctor fluid; brush with Disc Doctor brush a few passes forward and a few in reverse and vacuum it off (two passes). Repeat using rinse water and rinse brush. Done.

soulmanure · Jun 30, 2013

Thanks DC--quick question: what's the reasoning for using a rinse water/brush after the first cleaning?

JoeESP9 · Jun 30, 2013

I clean new vinyl. IMO, better safe than sorry.
I use enough rotations to dry the LP. The whole point of the vacuum is to remove the liquid.
When the felt leaves a film/residue or the LP doesn't seem to dry it's time to replace it.

DC · Jun 30, 2013

soulmanure said:
Thanks DC--quick question: what's the reasoning for using a rinse water/brush after the first cleaning?

I rinse because I use the Disc Doctor "Miracle" fluid. (I was never satisfied with the many various DIY fluids I made/tried. A local hi-fi dealer sells the DD stuff and uses it in his shop with good results. After using it myself, I like the results, too.) The DD fluids are based on a scrub-and-rinse process as the fluid is strong (can be diluted) and will leave a residue if allowed to just dry/evaporate, leaving crackly-sounding grooves. A rinse step is recommended in the directions and seems to get it done for me. They also make a no-rinse "quick wash" fluid, meant for RCM use, but my dealer says he has experienced it leaving a fine white film. I have not tried it myself.

soulmanure · Jun 30, 2013

I see--haven't had any film as of yet, fingers crossed.

DC · Jun 30, 2013

DC said:
I rinse because I use the Disc Doctor "Miracle" fluid. (I was never satisfied with the many various DIY fluids I made/tried. A local hi-fi dealer sells the DD stuff and uses it in his shop with good results. After using it myself, I like the results, too.) The DD fluids are based on a scrub-and-rinse process as the fluid is strong (can be diluted) and will leave a residue if allowed to just dry/evaporate, leaving crackly-sounding grooves. A rinse step is recommended in the directions and seems to get it done for me. They also make a no-rinse "quick wash" fluid, meant for RCM use, but my dealer says he has experienced it leaving a fine white film. I have not tried it myself.

I should explain further. In theory, a vacuum wand should remove anything in the grooves as it passes and sucks the liquid and whatever contaminants the liquid has worked loose and/or dissolved. In reality, however, I think there is also some evaporation that occurs right at the slot and this evaporation can leave behind some previously-dissolved-but-now-dried/precipitated-out crud. An additional rinse step seems to re-dissolve whatever got left behind the first time. My ears have heard consistently better results with the rinse step, especially with the DD fluids, so I leave it in.

soulmanure · Jun 30, 2013

DC said:
I should explain further. In theory, a vacuum wand should remove anything in the grooves as it passes and sucks the liquid and whatever contaminants the liquid has worked loose and/or dissolved. In reality, however, I think there is also some evaporation that occurs right at the slot and this evaporation can leave behind some previously-dissolved-but-now-dried/precipitated-out crud. An additional rinse step seems to re-dissolve whatever got left behind the first time. My ears have heard consistently better results with the rinse step, especially with the DD fluids, so I leave it in.

I see the logic now. Perhaps I'll try this for cases where the cleaning leaves less than stellar results.

Sandbar92 · Jul 1, 2013

I've changed the velvet pads on mine just once in 5 or 6 years - cleaned over 600 records in that time - you've got a long ways to go. I clean most new vinyl - depends how it sounds. I use Nitty Gritty Pure 2 and have never rinsed. 4 to 6 turns to dry - I probably go faster than most users.

Condorsat · Jul 1, 2013

soulmanure said:
First of all, I'm curious about what you do with brand new vinyl. Do you clean it or just consider it clean enough? I'm tending towards cleaning and then putting it in a Diskeeper.

Second, how slowly do you go on a manual turn when vacuuming, and how many revolutions do you make? I go moderately slow four times.

Third, when do you replace the felt on the vacuum (I have no ideas on this).

Fourth, what else do you do in your cleaning ritual?

1st ... Same as used vinyl. Every records gets a trip on the RCM before playing. I only replace the inner sleeve if it has deteriorated.

2nd ... Moderately slow ... three in one direction and two counter clockwise.

3rd ... as soon as it looks worn. In my case ... about once a year.

4th ... Keepers are cleaned with Disc Doctor Miracle Record cleaner followed by a several rinse cycles. User of DD since the early 2000s.

DD is my final cleaning process. After that ... any more trips to RCM will strictly be a pure water rinse.

Detail of my routine on post 15 ... http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=529512

elcoholic · Jul 1, 2013

I use DIY cleaner and a distilled water rinse on a DIY RCM that uses the VPI wand. The rinse is also a good indicator of how clean the record really is after the 1st wash pass. If the distilled water doesn't bead up like crazy, the record needs another cleaning pass. There should be very little sheating/flow out of distilled water on a really clean spinning record.

DougMac · Jul 1, 2013

elcoholic said:
I use DIY cleaner and a distilled water rinse on a DIY RCM that uses the VPI wand. The rinse is also a good indicator of how clean the record really is after the 1st wash pass. If the distilled water doesn't bead up like crazy, the record needs another cleaning pass. There should be very little sheating/flow out of distilled water on a really clean spinning record.

This describes me. In addition, I've made DIY wands that cost less than $1.00 each, so I can afford to replace them on a regular basis.

Since I use the wands, I have two bases that allow me to swap quickly. I use a "dirty" wand to vacuum cleaning fluid, then change to a "clean" wand to vacuum rinse. As elcoholic mentioned, I repeat the clean/rinse cycle as many times as needed to get the rinse water to bead. This is usually only one or two cycles with LPs/45s. 78s are a different story!

I don't buy new LPs, so I can't comment on cleaning new records.

the_nines · Jul 1, 2013

New albums I don't clean. They're new.:yes: Others may differ, but this is what I do (or don't). I don't wash new records. This is just me, others may have different opinions.

Second hand albums bought from my local store are in NM condition 99% of the time. Been buying there for as long as I can remember. His second hand albums are pristine. The owner is a stickler for what he buys, I trust him. Absolutely no issues!

Records I come across from thrifts, salvation army, garage sales, etc..

First thing I look for is "spindle marks". If the hole of the record has a spider web of markings around it, I tend to stay away. If not, I buy.

These records automatically go for a ride on this:

And I use this:

Five revolutions clockwise, five revolutions counter-clockwise, another five revolutions clockwise in the wash cycle. In the dry (vacuum) cycle, ten revolutions clock-wise. At this point the record is washed and bone-dry.

New sleeve, and all's good.

Been doing this ever since I started cleaning records. I am very happy with the results.

This is what I do ..... your mileage may vary.

:thmbsp:

soulmanure · Jul 1, 2013

Definitely going to do the clockwise/counterclockwise thing from now on. Does anyone ever worry about over drying? The instructions are clear that you never want to vacuum a dry album--could one vacuum a wet album too much and damage the vinyl?

kcblair · Jul 1, 2013

Well, I almost bought a RCM, until read a thread here, or somewhere, using a "paint Pad", warm water and a little soap, scrubbing counter-clockwise, rinsed with distilled water and surprise, I cleaned up a 1969 LP, (looked nice on the surface) beautifully. Yes, it's a little more work , but I can find other audio goodies to buy, than a RCM. Now I'm going to clean all my used LP purchases in this fashion.

DC · Jul 1, 2013

soulmanure said:
Does anyone ever worry about over drying? The instructions are clear that you never want to vacuum a dry album--could one vacuum a wet album too much and damage the vinyl?

Do the instructions say why one should not vacuum a dry album? I can think of a few potential reasons, but I'm curious what their justification is - I might learn something.

soulmanure · Jul 1, 2013

DC said:
Do the instructions say why one should not vacuum a dry album? I can think of a few potential reasons, but I'm curious what their justification is - I might learn something.

Alas, no--they only indicate vaguely but vehemently that this could damage the vinyl.

elusive · Jul 2, 2013

I was told that too much vacuum would create more static. It seems to be true. When I was using a wand on a shop vac, my records had a lot of static.

Now that I use actual RCM, much less static. I spin twice in one direction, once the other then wipe the outer edge with a towel.

the_nines · Jul 2, 2013

soulmanure said:
Definitely going to do the clockwise/counterclockwise thing from now on. Does anyone ever worry about over drying? The instructions are clear that you never want to vacuum a dry album--could one vacuum a wet album too much and damage the vinyl?

The instructions are correct. Why would you be vacuuming a dry album? :scratch2:

If your RCM has a vacuum, after you wash your records, just vacuum the freakin' thing. You're not damaging anything.

I've been told five revolutions of vacuuming, but I do ten!

Been doing this on records that cost fifty bucks a pop!! Records suffer absolutely no damage.

......it's air.

Records are more durable than you think.

soulmanure · Jul 2, 2013

the_nines said:
The instructions are correct. Why would you be vacuuming a dry album? :scratch2:

If your RCM has a vacuum, after you wash your records, just vacuum the freakin' thing. You're not damaging anything.

I've been told five revolutions of vacuuming, but I do ten!

Been doing this on records that cost fifty bucks a pop!! Records suffer absolutely no damage.

......it's air.

Records are more durable than you think.

Glad to hear that I needn't worry about over-vacuuming. The fear of possible damage motivating the question, and the instructions were the cause of that fear.

Record Cleaning Machine Best Practices?

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