Downsizing sale find - Dual 1019 - sell or keep?

Greetings,

I'm still new to the game so perhaps its beginners luck, but I found a Dual 1019 turntable with many accessories, in working condition, on its original plinth, and with its original dustcover. However because of the nature of the plinth and dustcover construction, I'm not sure they are really that valuable.

The owner purchased the unit in Hong Kong in 1968 while he was there with the U.S. Navy. He says that the plinth and dustcover are original, but it looks to me, based on the documents that came with the unit, that the Dual 1019 was purchased unmounted by a firm in Hong Kong who then had a plinth contructed and a dustcover fabricated. This means that neither the plinth nor the dust cover would be original Dual items and if that is the case I am not sure that they have any real value other than that they are functional. I.E. not collectable or rare since them are not OEM. The dust cover has the standard light scratching and the plinth has one or two ares where the trim is a little damaged so niether of them are in perfect condition either.

The turntable works great and appears to have an Empire I cartridge installed although the documents included were for a Shure. There is noticable discolororation visible on the headshell and I am not sure how this affects valuation. I am sure that replacement headshells can be obtained so this is just an issue of added costs to make the unit more cosmetic. Accessories included were the speed calibration disk, the automatic loading tall spindle, a stylus alignment guide for use when installing new headshells/cartridges, full owner's manual in poor shape due to a nearly torn off cover and several markings but it is otherwise legible, as well as a registration card and other assorted documents.

One true gem may be the full size mounting template that was included. The template is good for Dual models 1015, 1019, and 1010 S. I think I'm keeping this template regardless of what I do with the unit since It would be invaluable to have in the future if I would like to have a custom plinth made for a Dual. As a service to the forum, if there is enough interest, I would be willing to send some copies of this to those forum members who would like them at only a nominal cost.

So my dilemma is this, Do I sell it or keep it? First off I'm not a hoarder who must amass every product he can. My primary interest right now is in vintage reel to reel but I do buy/sell other vintage items to fund my "keeper" purchases. Part of my problem is that I do not know how common it is to find a turntable of this model in this condition. I just haven't been tracking it as long as I need to be to be able to have a good solid opinion of my own, which is why I'm asking for help. Similar units on the bay are selling for well over the $75 that I paid for this (in fact the tall spindle itself recently sold for $25) so If I bay it as is I will certainly make a profit.

Perhaps I would be better off holding it and waiting until I find a decent non-working unit with a factory base that I can match it up to and maybe even a better tonearm? If I did do this I would of course disclose this fact, but is doing this a less desirable action because my unit will still never be an "original" original?

Or I could keep it, since I'm not out an arm and a leg on it. I've read several posts where members lament ever parting with a specific unit and I'd hate to be in that position later on if I sell this unit now.

So please evaluate my unit and let me know what you think as to how it rates on a rare/common scale in its current condition with its current accessories.

Thanks

(photos in next post)

photos of dual 1019





















Link to supersize original photos
http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/blakemarnell/lst?.dir=/Dual+1019&.view=l

1. Your pictures didn't work.

2. You are too worried about money.

Doug

O Rly?

Doug G. said:

1. Your pictures didn't work.

2. You are too worried about money.

Doug

Click to expand...

You may be half correct.

The pictures are posted in a yahoo public folder. I can't tell if I can see them on my machine because I have cookie stored or not, but if you follow the link to my yahoo briefcase at http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/blakemarnell/lst?.dir=/Dual+1019&.view=l
you will be able to see them there. Last time I posted pics in line like this some could see them and some couldn't so there may be a user/browser preference in the mix also.


On the subject of money you are way off base. Hell I spent a few hours just doing research on Dual 1019's and even more hours listening to it. So its not all about the Hamiltons for me. Like I said I'm primarily interested in old Reel to Reel so if I trade up a few times on other items I might be able to swing getting a nice vintage deck. That doesn't mean that I won't hang on to a few gems along the way.

What I'm really worried about is that I might part with this unit too hastily and that I might regret it later. Its not the money that I'm worried about, its avoiding the remorse.

Saw one a couple months ago with the base. Someone had literally plopped it in to a console stereo. I believe all was $15-I passed for the day. On the return trip I was sidetracked and ended up getting a Sansui 9090DB for $10. No regrets.
BTW I'm still waiting to pay for a Denon DP-52F that I've had for several weeks.

Would an origional factory Plinth improve it's sound? Since the majority of vintage stereo gear is based on how it sounds. Modifications especially ones done as well as this would have very little effect on reducing value. Your not talking a rare item in any way. Your not talking a $2000.00 TT or even a $300.00 table so as long as it sounds good and looks what from your photo's and to me very attractive I would think it's worth about what any other Dual 1019 is worth. If you ebay it you don't set the value anyway the bidders do. Unless you want to set a reserve.


If you do a search on ebay for Dual 1019's that have sold in the last two weeks they all look to have different Plinths. Or at least four or more different ones.

IMHO

Now if you were talking about a 1954 Leica M3 rangefinder camera that had had goat leather covering put on it and the metal painted metalic blue then you bet it would effect it's value.

Ive seen people make custom plinths for many different turntables.I think the custom plinth thing was much more common in the 50's and 60's since so many people then bought their tables without a base,with many putting them in a console.As far as hurting sound or value,Ive yet to see a custom base for a Thorens TD 124 hurt its value,or make it less desirable.Myself,Id keep that table a loooooong time.
Jimmy

Sell it.

There are people on the forum who would never give up a 1019. I received one with a 1219 I bought about 6 months ago & gave it away.

One fully serviced by a reputible entity could bring 100-150 bucks, but short of that? maybe $50.00.

About the base/dustcover (sorry - your pics didn't oopen for me) - any Dual is more valuable for resale if it is mounted in the United Audio base/dust cover (you can tell because the base has a "United Audio" badge on the front & the DC has a "UA" badge centered on the top). UA was the sole US importer for Duals. Not the UA products were so special, it's just how people remember Duals from 30 years ago. If it came thru Canada, the base/DC will say "Noresco". Anywhere else, will say "Dual" or it is something home made. There was one funky clamshell style base/dustcover that was made in Japan & available in this county for 1219's & 1229's, but I've never come across one.

I have a 1019, they are nice units for what they are. People who collect 78 RPM records fancy them. I like mine, though I have better tables.

Keep it. The 1019 is a durable and surprisingly good sounding table. The arm is a little massy by the the standards of the high compliance cartridge craze that swept the audio world in the late 60s and early 70s, but cartridges nowadays tend to be of more moderate compliance, so the arm will suit them well.
I think its more than likely that the plinth may be better than the UA versions, which were pretty flimsy. If you look around, you will see that many listeners think that massive plinths can be helpful with these old rim drive tables -- whether you remove or keep the spring suspension is something you can try for your self. I don't know how solid or massive yours is, but don't assume its not as good.
The real reason I think you ought to keep it is that you are unlikely to make enough selling it to really step much up if you buy another one for a similar price. You say your real interest is reel to reel, and the 1019 is good enough to be a secondary source. And if you find a better table cheap, you can always sell the 1019 then.

Yahell doesn't host photos in a way that can be linked to. a shame.

Dual sold a lot (Most) TT's to "repackagers" if the plinth is well built, I'd keep it whole.

1019's aren't the top of the Dual TT line, but they are decent units.

Thanks to all who replied. I've got a clearer picture now especially on why I've seen so many diferent plinths with this model. Now all the info is in (easy part) and I just have to make the decision (hard part).

Thanks again,

Blake

The Base and Dust Cover makes it unique...

I like this series. Most folks in these parts know I have a stash of Duals from this period. My collection was had on the cheap. My 1009F was $75 with the United Audio deco style base and plexiglass cover. Like the 1010s I had in High School. Got three 1009 that the early version of the 1009F. No cue or antiskate. A tank and they sound great. All were had for under $50 My 1229 was a lucky find for $100 with a Shure V15 typeIII.

Point is, keep your 1019. They sound good and dont go for much. You can get a nice reel to reel for under $100. My TEAC in my Avatar is a 1230. I got it as a fixer upper for $37 with shipping. If you are handy three motor TEAC respond well to TLC. Makes great tapes!!! I am taking a chance on a TEAC 5500. Dont know whats wrong with it and have $76 in it. Wish me luck.

Eric

I bought a Dual 1019 myself in 1968 at a Navy Exchange in Yokusuka, Japan. The turntable was sold without the base, and came boxed with the template. I purchased the Dual base at the same time as a seperate item, since I had no plans to custom install the turntable. If memory serves me right, the base was walnut veneered, and the turntable set recessed inside on springs, and had a logo tag on the front of the base that read United Audio.

In those years, there were a lot of Dual 1019 turntables being used. It did not come with a cartridge, so I installed a Shure V15 type II cartridge on mine. It sounded pretty good, with the exception of the idler wheel rumble. In my opinion, it's the idler wheel rumble that makes this turmtable useless by present standards. As a collector item it may have some residual value, but as a record playing device it is of little value.

"It sounded pretty good, with the exception of the idler wheel rumble. In my opinion, it's the idler wheel rumble that makes this turmtable useless by present standards. As a collector item it may have some residual value, but as a record playing device it is of little value."


You are completely and utterly wrong, I could not agree less.

The 1019 is a fine table that is hard to match today. In a ultra bright "modern" system maybe you can hear the rumble. I use it with 85 watts through Bozaks with 4-12" woofers, it is dead quite. A 7.5 pound platter and built like a '50 automobile there's no audible rumble. Never thought of using the low filter, and I can almost move a couch with the sound.
The new tables have to get pretty expensive to impress a 1019 owner, say $700 +. IMO

i scored a 1019 a couple months ago and am loving it. i also built a custom plinth for it, which i think has improved the sound. if you're going to go that route, find some nice dense wood. i used Jatoba for mine, which is incredibly dense, though nearly impossible to work with!

do what works for you, but i think i found a gem here in this turntable. it's quiet, vibration-proof, and sounds beautiful!

I'm wondering what got you going on a thread 2-1/2 years old...

Pretty sure the guy decided one way or another.

It really does not matter how old a thread is to be of interest. All it did for me was jog a memory, which I related. Someone must be reading old threads......like you maybe, and the two Dual 1019 fans that jumped right on my comments.

At least I learned something from Rybeam......you can move furniture with a 1019. That might save a lot of money when it comes time to relocate. I just played records with mine.......and loved every minute of it, rumble and all.

All I can say about old threads is, if the boat floats, get on it if you want, otherwise just stand on the shore and wave.

jdandy said:

It really does not matter how old a thread is to be of interest. All it did for me was jog a memory, which I related. Someone must be reading old threads......like you maybe, and the two Dual 1019 fans that jumped right on my comments.

At least I learned something from Rybeam......you can move furniture with a 1019. That might save a lot of money when it comes time to relocate. I just played records with mine.......and loved every minute of it, rumble and all.

All I can say about old threads is, if the boat floats, get on it if you want, otherwise just stand on the shore and wave.

Click to expand...

My point was that the thread was 2-1/2 years old when bumped.

I was notified by Email as I had posted back when it was current, and I suspect the other two persons picked it up either the same way or on the new posts list.

It’s unusual for an old thread to be bumped and commented as if it were still current. Someone doing a search and asking a related question, that is the more common reason for a bump. I found it odd.

Agree with the previous post. I've modified my 1019 opinions - the build quality is excellent, but still wouldn't own one. For manual start, needing to move the tonearm AND push manual start is an unnecessary step the 12XX series corrected. I guess it's just what you cut your teeth on when you got your 1st Dual. Many must not mind the two step process.