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Oh no! My NAD316BEE was sonically slayed by Topping TP 20

R

Reynolds531

Active Member
I bought a Topping TP 20 Mark II to use in a bedroom system. When I received it I decided to test it in my "good" stereo just for kicks. I unplugged my NAD516 BEE CDP and pristine JBL L100T speakers from my NAD 316BEE integrated amp and hooked them up to the T amp. I put in Dave Brubeck Time Out, turned on the amp, turned the volume knob 1/3 turn, and hit play.

Wow, this amp is really clear and detailed at low volume. It will be great for nearfield, I thought to myself, but it will sound like crap when I try to push the volume. I have done the Math--the L 100 T puts out 91 db at 1 meter with 1 watt. I sit about 3 meters from the speakers, and not in an anechoic chamber, so it turns out about 1 watt rms gives a nice, pretty loud listening level. But a well mixed CD has 18 dB above RMS level so I need at least 64 clean watts. My NAD gives me at least 80 watts, the Topping only has about 14 watts before harmonic distortion increases rapidly. The Topping just won't be able to do it because my math says so.

Calculations be damned, when Take 5 came on I cranked the volume knob anther 1/3 turn and sealed the fate of my NAD316BEE. The drums blew me away. For several hours I enjoyed and challenged the little amp. Blasts from the horn section on Miles Ahead, Mark Knopfler's guitar and voice on Dire Straight's first album, the hammer striking the spike in Johnny Cash's John Henry. Get Your Ya Yas Out. George Szell Cleveland Orchestra Beethoven 9. All better on the Topping TP 20 than I remember them being with the NAD.

I unplugged the NAD today, giving up the remote and multiple inputs on an amp I really, really liked for the better sound from a $70 little T amp. 316BEE is probably on the way to eBay.
 
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Always good to get more bang for your buck! C316BEE only rated at 40wpc...Dynamic power peaks might hit 80wpc, but not for long.
The TP must be a better match for your JBLs.....

Enjoy your new find!
 
I just bought a Topping TP32 which is nice because it has a remote and i was VERY impressed. I'm setting up a little system for my girlfriend with some black Minimus 7's and the TP32.

I did not have a ton of time to play with it in my main system before i had to hand it over to my girlfriend but it was a pleasant surprise. I'm glad you're happy with yours!

Also, welcome to AK, and i see you're local to me, cool!
 
The little Toppings punch way above their price point. I'm very happy with my TP21. Serves as a nice and compact little power amp that's crisp, like breaking fresh lettuce.
 
Catcher10 said:
C316BEE only rated at 40wpc...Dynamic power peaks might hit 80wpc, but not for long!
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right, but the topping only puts out about 7 wpc with low THD. when I stated that I calculated 64 watts for 18 dB above my RMS listening level I was referring to combined power to both speakers. 1/2 watt per speaker will give spl 85-90 db where I sit, and 18 db above that reqires doubling the power 6 times to 32 wpc or 64 watts total which the NAD can do with ease.
 
Art K. said:
Don't sell the NAD until you have listened to the Topping for several weeks.
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+1

I'll bet if you tried the Topping and the NAD hooked up to a pair of Magnepan MMGs, you would very much prefer the NAD. The JBL's are an easy load on the amp...
 
The topping will give clarity, in spades. But it is not a clarity of organic warmth, but one of operating room sterility and coldness.

Hold on to the mad if you can.
 
ambient said:
So either the 'high' distortion sound is undetected or pleasing to your ear, correct?
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It could be undetected. If I'm running at an RMS power of 1/2 watt per channel, the distortion remains low up to about 8 watts per channel, which gives me 12 dB above RMS for crescendos and transient peaks before the distortion reaches audible levels. So it's only the loudest peaks that get distorted.

Also consider that I don't hear anything above 13 kHz, so the high freqency overtones could sound like overtones of finger nails on a chalkboard in discord with the shreek of a banshee and I'd never know.

I have read that most of the distortion in Tripath amps is in the second harmonic, which is suppose to be pleasing.

My guess is that the improvement in transient response is so much better that dominates any increase in distortion.

The most surprising result to me is that even my wife noticed when we listened to one of her Neil Diamond CDs. That should be a Hi- Fi marketing tagline--even your wife will notice.
 
Give it some time, at least until the honeymoon period is over.

I always believe that extended listening is required to make any valid judgments about a gear's sonic traits and before making any final decisions about that gear. It's also the reason why I don't really care for quick A/B testing, but that's for another discussion.
 
sheltie dave said:
The topping will give clarity, in spades. But it is not a clarity of organic warmth, but one of operating room sterility and coldness.

Hold on to the mad if you can.
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trhee said:
Give it some time, at least until the honeymoon period is over.

I always believe that extended listening is required to make any valid judgments about a gear's sonic traits and before making any final decisions about that gear. It's also the reason why I don't really care for quick A/B testing, but that's for another discussion.
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I'll switch back to the NAD in a few weeks. Who knows, maybe I'll be posting about how warm and musical the NAD sounds after the sterile, cold sound from the Topping.

My observation was not based on quick A/B testing. I've never played the two amps on the same day.
 
It's always good to hear when someone is surprised and impressed by "budget" components.

Your findings (hearings) bolster my contention that actually listening to gear has more validity than just reading specs. All gear that has any pretensions of hi-fi reproduction has noise and distortion specs that make noise and distortion pretty much inaudible. The only thing that's left is the ear. For me it is and always will be the final arbiter.

On more than one occasion I've put forth the idea that getting one's spouse to listen to and critique one's system is a good idea. It's well known that females generally have better and more acute hearing than males. The problem as I see it is getting them interested enough in our boy toys to seriously listen and comment.
 
Make sure you use an SPL meter to ensure you are listening at the same volume level with both amps. Or even better play a test tone and measure voltage delivered at the speaker.
 
JoeESP9 said:
Your findings (hearings) bolster my contention that actually listening to gear has more validity than just reading specs. All gear that has any pretensions of hi-fi reproduction has noise and distortion specs that make noise and distortion pretty much inaudible. The only thing that's left is the ear. For me it is and always will be the final arbiter.
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Yea, I once had a Sony Receiver rated at 100 WPC at 0.05% THD. I could barely tell a Clarinet from a Saxophone or an Upright Bass note from a Kick Drum strike with it.

I'm an Engineer and tend to think that there should be some numbers to define system performance, but my experiecne of positive and negative surprises from expectations based on numbers (and price) tells me it just isn't so.
 
IME the only thing specs do, especially with speakers, is inform me as to what I shouldn't bother with at all.

It took me many years to come to this attitude. I'm a retired EE. When I was a fresh engineer I truly believed that specs could tell everything about audio gear. Not!
 
JoeESP9 said:
IME the only thing specs do, especially with speakers, is inform me as to what I shouldn't bother with at all.

It took me many years to come to this attitude. I'm a retired EE. When I was a fresh engineer I truly believed that specs could tell everything about audio gear. Not!
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I'm a Chem E. My first job was to develop purchasing specifications for Chemicals, fuels, and lubricants for the State of Ohio.

A local public TV station asked us to purchase a video tape recorder for them. I was the only engineer in our group, so I got the project. I earnestly researched all the specifications and wrote an elaborate request for bids that I thought would allow competitive bidding but insure quality. I went to review the document with the old, crusty engineer at the station, all proud of what I knew. He read it and said "I don't care about any of this stuff. I'd rather just flip the switches and turn the knobs to feel the quality of the build." I started to protest but he shot me down. "You pick the one based on best specs. I'll flip the switches and turn the knobs blindfolded, and I'll get a better unit everytime." Ultimately, he did and sole-sourced a Sony, which is what he wanted all along.
 
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