KEF 105.4 In the House!

hjames

We are all just walking each other home.
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Some of you all know me - I came to these audio forums about 10 years ago as a firm JBL Fanatic -
at one time i had JBL 4341 monitors biamped with a JBL/UREI Active crossover and JBL/UREI amps.

I wound up setting up a 2nd system for strictly 2 channel music upstairs (the room with the plants and cathedral ceiling),
I got some Magneplanars in that space and got caught up in imaging ... Later I tried some DCM Timeframe speakers -
I liked their sound, sold off the JBLs downstairs in my surround/media system and set it up all-DCM TFs.

6 Months later I got a deal on a pair of Vandersteens 2CEs upstairs, liked their sound better,
wound up selling off all the DCMs, and converted the downstairs surround system to (nearly) all Vandys.

I have found the upstairs 2 channel system (and that listening space) is much more conducive for imaging and general music listening.
I switched that system over to a tube amp and got a Jolida JD502BRC 60w/ch integrated tube amp from JJohnson nearly 2 years ago.

Sources include an Oppo DV981HD disc player (Bluebook, HDCD, SACD), Apple Airport Express (streams lossless track from my office MacPro)
fed through an Audio Alchemy DAC that the Oppo shares, and a (rarely used) Denon DF45F turntable (I bought it new back then) with a Stanton 681EEE cart.

But this is about British gear!

Last fall I got a pair of Ruark Talisman II speakers from Wes in VA (he had earlier bought from JJohnson).
Then on Feb 19th, I got JJohnson's KEF 105.4 speakers.
(I also have a pair of customized JBL L200 speaker cabinets converted to 3 ways with external mid-horn and slot tweeter in that room -
this thread is not about them).

So far all I did was reassemble the 105.4s with the casters on the bottom, instead of the grey platforms he used with them (on edge in the front of the pix) - and shuffle them around in position somewhat.

I did use the bullseye sighting window to line them up for my listening chair - can't say right off if it helped - I am quite new to them and need more listening time ... but they are interesting!

This is an upper floor in a 1950s-era house - Cathedral ceiling with skylights and hardwood floors, with an open room below. These speakers have plenty of bass capability -

Clash's "Robber Dub" remix is almost unlistenable its so overkilled with Bass.
Boz Scaggs "Desire" (on Dig) is actually full without overkill ...
Some of the fast bass playing on the Tony Levin era King Crimson Cds is quite distinct and nice.
Ryuichi Sakamoto's "Merry Christmas Mr Lawrence" from his 1996 CD is stark and sweet and near perfect ...
as is Ry Cooder on "Get Rhythm", "Teardrops Will Fall" or "Diaraby" (Talking Timbuktu). Nice and tight and crisp!
Jean Gulliou's organ playing of Wachet Auf is good - I believe its missing the lowest pipes, but I am not an extreme pipe organ buff - so its fine.

I'm not likely to put my M&K Volkswoofer sub in that room to go deeper - The maggies really needed it but these speakers are fine without that extreme bottom.

More as I get to know them!
Grills and Hats off and to the left, and grills on.


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I am extremely jealous Heather, those are my favourite speakers - thanks for taking the time to describe your impressions of them. :yes:

I once read an essentially unbiassed review of them where they were blind tested by a group of audio experts, the praise that was heaped on them for realism and neutrality, plus great extension and imaging was enough for me to know that I want a pair.

One day I might be fortunate enough. :smoke:
 
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Congrats. I hope these work out for you.

Sometimes many speaker pairs in a room gets all those bass transducers woofin' to the air pressure produced by the pair that's reproducing music. That can smear the image and cohesiveness of the pair under assessment.
Something to think about.
 
Congrates Heather!!! You've get some good ones there... I've been hoping to score a pair of those some day.

Now all you need to do is find a pair of 107's!!! That bass reproduction will really wow ya!!! :yes:
 
I gather the 107s are quite rare around here ... but I'll look for them!

Here's more info on the 105.4s I found at the KEF site:

http://www.kef.com/html/us/explore/about_kef/museum/1980s/Reference_Series_105.4/index.html

Reference Series Model 105.4

In response to the demand for a loudspeaker system with the performance of Model 105.2 but in a smaller package, KEF introduced Model 105.4.

This new system followed the same basic design philosophy of the 105.2, but with a more compact bass enclosure comprising two 8” bextrene coned bass drivers in place of the single 12” unit, and the new T33 fabric domed tweeter in place of the melinex domed T52. The result was a system that had the essence of the 105.2 sound, its tonal neutrality and pin point stereo imaging, but at the expense of a slight loss in bass extension.

Consistent with the 105.2, it included S-Stop protection circuitry, a peak level indicator to warn of amplifier clipping, and all production systems benefited from KEF’s Reference methodology which matched the response of every system to within 1dB of the design reference, with each pair to within 0.5dB of each other.

Specification: Model 105.4
System Type: Three-way, floor standing
Enclosure type: Closed box
Size: 93.6 x 35 x 38cm (37 x 13.75 x 15 inches)
Weight: 22kg (45 lb)
Nominal Impedance: 8 ohms
Rated maximum power: 200W programme
Amplifier Requirements: 40-200 watts per channel into 8 ohms
Frequency response: 55-20,000Hz +/-2dB at 2m on design axis
Sensitivity: 86dB at 1m for a pink noise input of 1W, anechoic conditions
Maximum output: 108dB on programme peaks under typical listening conditions
Finishes: Walnut, teak, rosewood and black ash veneers
Grille: Black cloth
System: SP1120
Drive units: 2 x B200 bass unit (SP1076), B110 midrange unit (SP1057), T33 tweeter (SP1074)
Crossover: SP1129, SP1130 and SP1142 (later SP1129 and SP2013)

Download reference Series 105.4 Brochure
 
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I would be curious to see if the house plants thrive even more from being exposed to the British sound?
 
New pix after we cleaned for the listening party today - moved the coffee table back, got rid of one of the "iffy" trees, etc ...

I'm starting to think that a recap may be in order to see what their high end is really like ...
All I can find is the Brochure - so far, no owners manual or schematics for this model ...

Anyway - kind of a rotation around the room -
one of my friends said its a great listening space -
he said a cinderblock would play well in this room!


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Just to put it into reference, I pulled the grills to exposed those "mangy old" customized JBL speakers I've have for a few years ...
They're based on the original L200 cabinets with a hand built 3 way crossover, smith horns with 2445J (2 inch pro) drivers,
and a pair of 077 slot tweeters on top - There is something about an efficient system with a 15 inch woofer (2234).
The internal LE85 and added in 2405 slots are not currently wired up - I was trying for a taller sound stage with the external drivers.
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I've been reading old threads here about other older KEF models. Sounds like its common for the top end to get a little "off" when they age.
Mine have the KEF T33 (SP1074) tweeters - not the later models with ferrofluid, so recharging the fluid isn't a solution ...

Perhaps the best bet is to recap the crossovers - The 105.4s were from 1980-84 - so they are certainly old enough to need recapping. Since the easiest approach was to dismount the upper cabinet and have a look - maybe the high split side of the crossover is in there - but, no. Just the S-Stop circuit and the window bullseye systems are within.
But here are pix for the curious - I'll open the lower cabinets a bit later and document what I find in them ...




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After work today, I laid one of the bass cabinets out and pulled the lower woofer - the cabinets are stuffed with yellow foam rubber,
there is no excess length on the leads, and its a tight fit getting things out,
but I did manage to get the crossover out and read what I think are the numbers on the caps. They are marked ELCAP.

C1 - 120 MFD 150v
C2 - 120 MFD 150v
C3 - 120 MFD 150v
C4 - 80 MFD 150v
C5 - 72 MFD 150v
C6 - 30 MFD 150v
C7 - 7 MFD 50v
C8 - 50 MFD 50v
C9 - 12 MFD 150v
C10 - 33 MFD 50v
C11 - 42 MFD 50v
C12 - 42 MFD 50v

There is a little potted thing with a few colors on it -
maybe some other kind of cap?



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If you want replacements as close to the original as possible, send off an e-mail to Jerry Bloomfield at sales@falconacoustics.co.uk with that list and he'll suit you up (they sell ALCAPs, which are made by the same manufacturer as the ELCAPs, but they are made with aluminum instead of wax and paper hence the name change). Of course otherwise go with what you feel is best.

Just as I thought, those crossovers aren't simple! The 104/2 crossover had 15 capacitors and the 107 had 16.
 
What a fabulous listening space. I love it and I'll be it's a good sounding area.

When I did up my 104/2s, I decided to skip the crossover upgrades after playing mine continuously for a week continuously with the speakers facing each other flush face-to-face.
It's pretty amazing how caps respond to continuous use.
I'm not saying don't do it and canuckaudiodog's advice is absolutely correct, I'm just saying continuous play is a cheap alternative worth trying first. KEFs do have pair-matched crossovers where the components for both crossovers of the pair were pulled from bins where the caps were tightly matched after they had been measured with a serious cap bridge like a Wayne-Kerr, so going with a reputable seller familiar with the brand is the only way to go.

I also used door wedges under the front feet to raise the tweets just a bit. I felt that speakers was undertweetered, but just a bit of a tip up made a big difference.
 
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Well AudioDon - the tweeters in the upper cabinets are on a tiltable, steerable mount, so I can tilt the upper box to tip them higher without using a door stopper.
Even has a guide-window setting so I can center a red LED in a bullseye window to focus the sweet spot right at my head - pretty amazing feature.

I'm used to JBL slot tweeters and 15 woofers in my other speakers - but I'm thinking a refresh of the caps would get them at their best ...
I built new crossovers for my JBL 3 ways based on a schematic shared by 4313B, one of the engineers over at the Lansing forum,
and the fresh parts in them made quite a diff in the sound of that system (playing "Beck - Sea Changes" on them right now) -
compared to the '70s era crossover & parts, so I am thinking a recap makes sense for this 30 year old pair of speakers ...

Thanks for the info, Canuckaudiog!
I just sent an email off to Falconaccoustics, and will hopefully hear back from them in a few days ...


I'll let you all know how things go!
 
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What a fabulous listening space. I love it and I'll be it's a good sounding area.

When I did up my 104/2s, I decided to skip the crossover upgrades after playing mine continuously for a week continuously with the speakers facing each other flush face-to-face.
It's pretty amazing how caps respond to continuous use.
I'm not saying don't do it and canuckaudiodog's advice is absolutely correct, I'm just saying continuous play is a cheap alternative worth trying first. KEFs do have pair-matched crossovers where the components for both crossovers of the pair were pulled from bins where the caps were tightly matched after they had been measured with a serious cap bridge like a Wayne-Kerr, so going with a reputable seller familiar with the brand is the only way to go.

I also used door wedges under the front feet to raise the tweets just a bit. I felt that speakers was undertweetered, but just a bit of a tip up made a big difference.


Ah yeah I forgot to mention, if you email Jerry, let him know it's for a pair of Kef Reference speakers. He will match a set of capacitors for you.


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Ah yeah I forgot to mention, if you email Jerry, let him know it's for a pair of Kef Reference speakers. He will match a set of capacitors for you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, I told him they were for a pair of KEF 105.4s ... thanks!
 
Yep, I told him they were for a pair of KEF 105.4s ... thanks!


No problem. ELCAPs do not age well, and even though those are the newest ELCAPs I've seen yet I'm positive you will notice a good improvement in the entire bandwidth. The ALCAPs are made better as well and also you can specify a 2% tolerance :)


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No problem. ELCAPs do not age well, and even though those are the newest ELCAPs I've seen yet I'm positive you will notice a good improvement in the entire bandwidth. The ALCAPs are made better as well and also you can specify a 2% tolerance :)


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+1 on that... interesting that the R107's went to AlCaps I guess soon after the 105.4 (1986?). So the crossover for the heads is in the base? That's interesting too, considering the R107's placed it in the heads. :scratch2:
 
I'll have to subscribe to this thread so I can learn if the crossover refresh makes a difference.

I didn't know the tweet head tilted. I think my only exposure was to the original 105s and I think the top module with mids and highs is a single piece but I'm not sure because I haven't seen one physically since 1980.

Are you planning on doing one at a time and then comparing improved to not improved?
 
Yes, the upper cabinet contains the midrange and the tweeter, offset to make them time aligned. There is a kind of window in the middle of the upper cab that you can enable with the rotary switch on the back, and a red light blinks on peaks. By turning the cabinet side to side or tilting it forward or back, you can see the peak light "move" around in a view window. When its centered, the upper cabinet is pointed at your head ... Simple, but very effective.

I'll take some pix of the pivot assembly this weekend.

I probably should do them one at a time - so I can A/B them but this kind of thing can work best with both crossovers out to better match parts placement.
 
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