• The move to the new server is done. There are some software and database maintenance updates in process. This has us passing the hat around to help out. We appreciate any donations. Seriously, even a dollar helps. The payment page may be found here - https://www.audiokarma.org/support.html

Warning to sellers: Loophole allows refunds for buyer's remorse.

audiomagnate

audiomagnate

Addicted Member
While "Buyer's Remorse" is not listed in the PayPal rules as a valid reason for cancelling a sale, there is a way for a buyer to get around this:

If a buyer changes his mind about a purchase after the sale but before delivery, he can simply refuse the package or shipment and claim non-delivery. The seller is then responsible for return shipping, and the original shipping if it was included in the purchase price, as well as the 2.9% PayPal fees. If you are shipping heavy speakers via freight, this can cost you well over $1000. The fickle minded buyer gets off scot-free. Amazing but true. It happened to me this morning, and PayPal will not budge. Live and learn.
 
Last edited:
Register to hide this ad
Yes, pretty much any transaction can be rescinded wherever eBay and/or PayPal is involved.

I don't even think delivery refusal is necessary either.
 
OMG, how RUDE!
Very sorry to hear that ...

audiomagnate said:
While "Buyer's Remorse" is not listed in the PayPal rules as a valid reason for cancelling a sale, there is a way for a buyer to get around this:

If a buyer changes his mind about a purchase after the sale but before delivery, he can simply refuse the package or shipment and claim non-delivery. The seller is then responsible for return shipping, and the original shipping if it was included in the purchase price, as well as the 2.9% PayPal fees. If you are shipping heavy speakers via freight, this can cost you well over $1000. The fickle minded buyer gets off scot-free. Amazing but true. It happened to me this morning, and PayPal will not budge. Live and learn.
Click to expand...
 
To me this is BS. It is contracts 101 that you had the three essential elements necessary for a valid contract: (1) offer (2) acceptance (3) consideration ($). The crappy part is that its most likely not worth pursuing legal action because of the the money's involved and effort to effect process, etc...
 
hjames said:
OMG, how RUDE!
Very sorry to hear that ...
Click to expand...

Marc at the Sound Gallery in Austin (awesome guy, awesome store) is holding them (L300's) for me while I figure out what to do. This, along with bogus "item not as described-give me a discount!" claims are becoming alarmingly common lately.
 
So, what value are you receiving by doing business with EBay or PayPal?

I think that is what people have to ask themselves. It appears to me that this whole thing may self destruct if it continues in this direction.

I've actually never used either because I have a philosophical problem with the whole PayPal concept. Fortunately, I don't need to do business at that scale. Kijiji, Craigslist, etc have worked just fine for the level I am at.
 
What's the id of this sorry ass so we can block him?

Also, how can he say "Item not as described" without receiving it?
 
It really seems like ebay and paypal are going out of their way to make it harder for sellers to make a living.
I recently went through quite an ordeal with ebay's overseas shipping program.
I shipped a nice old pair of Altec drivers overseas and they were literally reduced to powder. The buyer complained, and rightly so, and the money for the speakers was promptly taken from my checking account. It took a week of phone calls, waiting on the line, and talking to managers to finally get my money refunded.

I am convinced that if I hadn't kicked up such a fuss about my money I would've never gotten it back...
 
Have you called Ebay and talked to a real person who speaks American?


I don't see how you can fulfill your obligations and ship item. To have them refusse for no other reason then to cancel transaction.

Calling PP might be done after calling Ebay first.



Barney
 
Noted. You'll find very few sellers at other online markets, e.g., Gunbroker, who will accept Paypal. The example you've cited is one of the reasons.
 
It's getting harder and harder to be a seller on eBay. It all started going downhill when we as sellers were no longer able to leave anything but possitive feedback for buyers.
 
And of course, the customer's Ace in the Hole is to simply skip Ebay and PayPal and just dispute the charge with their credit card company. They don't care about Ebay and PayPal rules. If the customer isn't happy, the vendor gets the shaft.
 
Wow! Again, no protection for the seller.

I noticed buyer remorse also used as 'item not as described' open case. Buyer says it does not meet specs and wants say 30% off. Also, buyer knows you know they have the negative feedback hammer.

And, some want items for free with the negative feedback hammer.

Totally disgusting. ebay apparently has enough sales & profits that a few thrown under the bus is no big deal to them.
 
Last edited:
Mystery said:
What's the id of this sorry ass so we can block him?

It was a US Audiomart deal but he paid with PayPal goods and services.

Also, how can he say "Item not as described" without receiving it?
Click to expand...

It's an "Item not Delivered" case and I have to show proof of delivery to close the case, but since he refused delivery that's impossible, so he wins. A classic Catch 22.

Oerets said:
Have you called Ebay and talked to a real person who speaks American?

Not an eBay deal.


I don't see how you can fulfill your obligations and ship item. To have them refusse for no other reason then to cancel transaction.

Calling PP might be done after calling Ebay first.

I've taken this up to the supervisor level at PayPal. They are "considering" a "partial" reimbursement of the original shipping charges. And they are adamant that they will not pay to get them back to me.



Barney
Click to expand...

Mystic said:
Noted. You'll find very few sellers at other online markets, e.g., Gunbroker, who will accept Paypal. The example you've cited is one of the reasons.
Click to expand...

Now I know why.

jsisk said:
And of course, the customer's Ace in the Hole is to simply skip Ebay and PayPal and just dispute the charge with their credit card company. They don't care about Ebay and PayPal rules. If the customer isn't happy, the vendor gets the shaft.
Click to expand...

Yep. You can "win" your case with PayPal, only to "lose" the case with the credit card company, who remains anonymous, a month later, and your money disappears. You don't even get to plead your case with the mystery card company, PayPal does it for you, and they usually lose, which is no skin off their back, as it's not their money. I've had that happen as well.


Another thing sellers need to be aware of, is that PayPal, amazingly enough, does not consider a Bill of Lading, signed by the carrier showing he has picked up the goods in good condition, as proof of shipment. The ONLY proof they accept is a UPS, USPS or FedEx tracking number. We have a signed document from a registered carrier, which would do fine in court, but PayPal considers it worthless. I told them they could speak with the carrier on his cell phone, who was attempting the delivery, but is turns out that is against their rules. PayPal is truly above the law. They make their own laws, and there really is nothing you can do about it, short of an expensive lawsuit.
 
Last edited:
What a sad state of affairs. Maybe Marc can find a local buyer for you - not me, I don't have the extra scratch. Best of luck and fingers crossed for the best possible outcome. .
 
PayPal above the law- always has been...........

Another thing sellers need to be aware of, is that PayPal, amazingly enough, does not consider a Bill of Lading, signed by the carrier showing he has picked up the goods in good condition, as proof of shipment. The ONLY proof they accept is a UPS, USPS or FedEx tracking number. We have a signed document from a registered carrier, which would do fine in court, but PayPal considers it worthless. I told them they could speak with the carrier on his cell phone, who was attempting the delivery, but is turns out that is against their rules. PayPal is truly above the law. They make their own laws, and there really is nothing you can do about it, short of an expensive lawsuit.[/QUOTE]

Although PayPal was purchased by ebay, the original PayPal defaulted on 1000s with money in their account years ago. The original PayPal owners stated their files were violated by a group of hackers and the owners somehow walked away from it. I lost $200 myself.
 
Mingo said:
What a sad state of affairs. Maybe Marc can find a local buyer for you - not me, I don't have the extra scratch. Best of luck and fingers crossed for the best possible outcome. .
Click to expand...

I just got off the phone with Robert Johnson at the Sound Gallery. They have a Paragon coming in as well. It's becoming a vintage JBL paradise down there!


===================================================================================================
QUOTE:
Although PayPal was purchased by ebay, the original PayPal defaulted on 1000s with money in their account years ago. The original PayPal owners stated their files were violated by a group of hackers and the owners somehow walked away from it. I lost $200 myself.[/QUOTE]
=======================================================

So you're one of the original Tesla investors!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom