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Using Latex Cement for KLH Cloth Surround Doping

KingBubba

KingBubba

"Too Much Stuff"
I plan to re-dope my KLH woofers with rubber cement. I remember reading about what to use to thin Rubber Cement with, but I cannot find the reference. Does anyone remember or know what solvent to use to thin rubber cement?

Any voiced opinions would be welcomed, but I can say that, due to research done on AK, Aleene's is out as a choice.
 
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KingBubba said:
I plan to re-dope my KLH woofers with rubber cement. I remembering reading about what to use to thin Rubber Cement with, but I cannot find the reference. Does anyone remember or know what solvent to use to thin rubber cement?

Any voiced opinions would be welcomed, but I can say that, due to research done on AK, Aleene's is out as a choice.
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Do NOT use rubber cement. It will get too hard and ruin the woofers. Get the sealer "vintage-ar" sells on fleabay. It's the best, closest sealer to the factory stuff you can get. Don't use anything else.
 
Oh I wouldn't recommend rubber cement at all. Get some of the stuff sold as Acoustic Research surround dope, or find yourself some butyl rubber like I did and thin that out and use it. Its what the original KLH service updates called for. I have a ton of it mixed up already if your interested a jar could be sent your way for the price of postage. It works great, and I've used it on KLH 5s,6's, 23's and AR4x's that have been going strong for well over 2 years now. PM if your interested.
 
I'd like to take this occasion to once again petition the mods to make the post about what to use (exactly ONE product) as opposed to what NOT to use (everything else) a STICKY since this question comes up so often.

Who knows how many pair of AR/KLH/etc have died a slow death because the wrong stuff was used. Please, stop the madness.
 
Just get the sealant from vintage-ar on the auction site. It is closest to the original formulation according to the gurus while it seems every other solution is snake oil eventually screwing up the fact of the woofer. A bottle is more than enough for a pair of woofers and mid drivers.

There is quite a bit of discussion related to sealing AR and KLH cloth surrounds and it seems all roads eventually leas room the same conclusion as to what to do unless you want to screw up the woofer. I started reading about it some time ago and many threads died and were not updated leading to incorrect conclusions while others would cite these earlier threads and add new info.
 
Not to dog pile on OP but if you use anything other than the correct non-hardening fabric sealer the negative results will be irreversible and you'll end up reducing the bass response instead of improving it. I second the idea of making the proper re-doping procedure a sticky, I'm sure many great vintage woofers have been ruined with concoctions that have hardened up and decreased their bass response. Roy C. has put a lot of time and effort into this subject with measured results, his work should be recognized and made a sticky to help everyone IMHO.
 
audiojones said:
Not to dog pile on OP but if you use anything other than the correct non-hardening fabric sealer the negative results will be irreversible and you'll end up reducing the bass response instead of improving it. I second the idea of making the proper re-doping procedure a sticky, I'm sure many great vintage woofers have been ruined with concoctions that have hardened up and decreased their bass response. Roy C. has put a lot of time and effort into this subject with measured results, his work should be recognized and made a sticky to help everyone IMHO.
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Agree!!!!
 
Totally agree with the prescribed elixir as the very best potion available, but not all 45-year-old KLH surrounds require re-doping, so it's best to check for air-tightness first. To paraphrase the Hippocratic Oath, "do no harm".
 
I agree with the above poster that stated someone please make a sticky. This topic comes up way too often, and I also hate to think of all the drivers that have gone by the wayside due to random materials being used. The original KLH service update is available I believe at Classicspeakerpages.net. It is a mixture of butyl rubber and toluene as a thinner which just evaporates. Pure butyl is fairly easy to find, and toluene is available at most hardware/DIY stores. I know Roy C put some time into coming up with a concoction that worked very good, but it is a pretty simple mixture with the right ingredients.
 
The woofers pop back right away when released and I can feel air passing through the cloth when depressed. It is no longer an air suspension speaker. :yes:
 
klh doping stuff

I went with the recommended ebay stuff(vintage AR) but found it to be a bit expensive for the amount issued.Regardless,it does the job and hopefully will be a lifetime fix.I'd be curious about the formula rendered by those in the know.(BBRN?)
 
OK I found it. KLH recommended this be done to all woofers brought in for service as well as any remaining stock. Like I said, its not a complicated thing, just a matter of having the right materials. For some reason I always seem to get beat up by particular individuals in the forums when I bring this up, but I have nothing to gain from it...just sharing information with fellow DIYers and KLH owners....which is what I thought we were all about here at AK. Make your own judgements I suppose.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/...schematicsservice/klh_service_bulletin_60.pdf
 
Well scratch my skivers! It is truly amazing how much there is to be learned here. Many thanks for the update. :thmbsp: :yes:
 
For those interested this is what I use.
http://www.amazon.com/Black-PTI-Butyl-Rubber-Sealant/dp/B001G0XT38/ref=pd_cp_hi_0

Read through the description, and you'll see it is very durable, and highly flexible. Like I said toluene is readily available, but in my opinion most thinners will work as they serve no other purpose than to thin the rubber for application, and then evaporate leaving behind the butyl coating. I've got a whole damn mason jar of the stuff :), so my offer still stands.

Edit: Also the 12.5 drivers that are mentioned I believe refer to the mids in the model 5 and 12.
 
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I wondered about that also as I have ADC 303ax w/ cloth doped surrounds.I have no problem w/ them and are still plyable but wondered if old school modeling dope would also work. When I was a kid and built balsa wood bi-planes w/ tissue paper covered wings and fuselage they used clear dope as the sealant. I haven't been to a hobby store in 45 years so I don't know if they still make the stuff. I guess they still do.

http://www.oakridgehobbies.com/guil...ope-3-5-oz-balsa-wood-airplane-model-kit.html
 
BBRN said:
OK I found it. KLH recommended this be done to all woofers brought in for service as well as any remaining stock. Like I said, its not a complicated thing, just a matter of having the right materials. For some reason I always seem to get beat up by particular individuals in the forums when I bring this up, but I have nothing to gain from it...just sharing information with fellow DIYers and KLH owners....which is what I thought we were all about here at AK. Make your own judgements I suppose.

http://www.classicspeakerpages.net/...schematicsservice/klh_service_bulletin_60.pdf
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Given the expense of the vintage AR product, perhaps a group of us could pool our resources and buy the raw materials to make a batch? Does anyone know where to source butyl and toluene?
 
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