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Watkins woofers in quantum line

M

meridian

New Member
Hi there, I am restoring a pair of QLS-1's.
I am looking for the woofers, according to the specs this should be an 902-1180, but now I found a 451-... from a quantum 5.
Is this one suitable also? Could it be it is the older version with paper cone of the newer 902-1180 with a poly cone? :scratch2:

any info here would be greatly appreciated! thanks! :music:
 
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I was picking up my refoamed Q5 woofer and I saw the set on ebay. At the shop they had a Watkins woofer from a 4.5 that was apart. It had a polyproplyene woofer and a larger voice coil and a bigger magnet. I thoughtn they were all the same but they are not.
 
KR7600 said:
I was picking up my refoamed Q5 woofer and I saw the set on ebay. At the shop they had a Watkins woofer from a 4.5 that was apart. It had a polyproplyene woofer and a larger voice coil and a bigger magnet. I thoughtn they were all the same but they are not.
Click to expand...


You think all the polypropylene woofers have larger coils and higher excursion possibilities?
Would there only be a difference between the poly woofers and the pare ones, or also more differences in each type?
did you notice the serial number by any chance?
thx! :tresbon:
 
meridian,
Those with Watkins woofers are Quantum 2, 3, 4, 5 , Quantum Line Source, Quautum Reference Standard, Infinitesimal, Reference Standard 2.5 and 4.5, Renaissance 80 and 90.

There are in fact four versions of the 12 inch Watkins woofers that were used in the loudspeakers that sported the 12 inch woofer. They are a paper cone with a 40 ounce magnet and a 2 inch voice coil, a paper cone with a 30 ounce magnet with and one and one half inch voice coil, and the the poly versions of each of those.

All four are useable and interchangeable with each other with the caveat that for performance considerations whatever you are using in the loudspeaker system should be the same, magnet and voice coil wise. They will work however the sonics will be off to some degree if you mix magnet/voice coil sizes.

To expound; for example having a pair of loudspeakers with a combination of paper and poly Watkins woofers but all with the same magnet and voice coil size will produce the same sonics. If you mix magnet and therefore voice coil woofers within a pair of loudspeakers then the sonics could be a bit off, how much I really do not know, but I conjecture.

Another thing to know is that the Watkins woofers do not really require more power per se. They lower an inordinate high impedance at resonance to be equal to impedance in the midrange and draws the same power to deliver the same at low and mid frequency range.

So, in summary, you can use any of the four versions, however, try to keep magnet and voice coil size the same with your loudspeaker pair.

Vito

P.S. What is that complete model number please?
 
Just a thought and a question here guys. If I was to replace the paper cone woofers with the polycones in my Q2's (Hypothetically speaking), would some changes to the xover be required??? This may be a "little" complication with switching the different versions within a series of speakers??.

Vito, great info on the different Watkins. I didn't know those different versions existed. Good stuff :thmbsp:
 
Kencat said:
Just a thought and a question here guys. If I was to replace the paper cone woofers with the polycones in my Q2's (Hypothetically speaking), would some changes to the xover be required??? This may be a "little" complication with switching the different versions within a series of speakers??.
Click to expand...

Hail Kencat,
The answer is no. The Watkins and crossover relationship will remain the same.
Vito
 
I ended up buying the pair on ebay.
the serial nr is 451-4527 on one of them, on the other it starts with 451 too, but I cannot make out the rest from the picture. I have to wait until UPS delivers now, I live in Belgium, Europe.

Thanks for the explanation on the 4 types! so they are interchangable but dont sound alike... which type is the best for sound? and which can put out the highest output?
I am guessing that the smallest magnet will deliver less midbass energy, and that the paper cones can take less power output than the poly ones?
is this correct?
How can I tell which one is Voicecoil 1 and which one is voicecoil 2, so I can make the correct connections, according to the crossover scheme?
 
I was told that the paper cones are superior to the polyethylene cones by the technicians at the speaker store. I have 2 sets of Quantum 2's, one set has paper cones the other set polyethylene. The paper ones sound better to me anyway.
 
KR7600 said:
I was told that the paper cones are superior to the polyethylene cones by the technicians at the speaker store. I have 2 sets of Quantum 2's, one set has paper cones the other set polyethylene. The paper ones sound better to me anyway.
Click to expand...

That could be logical: the quantum series were designed for the paper ones, the poly for a newer series.
I think the paper ones will sound faster and go lower in frequency.
On the other hand I suspect the poly ones will have less destortion on higher volumes due to a stiffer cone?
 
meridian,

what was wrong with the original QLS woofers??? Don't just need new foam do they? It's great to have the new ones, but don't throw out the originals if they can be renewed. Seems a little odd that the woofers would be destroyed.
 
About all the Watkins woofers are still available directly from Watkins Stereo, about 35 miles from where I live. They ain't cheap, but about everybody I knew who bought a set of WSCs "Back in the day" still has 'em. Old Mr Watkins is still around, still opinionated as ever.
 
I read somewhere that besides the foam, the paper cone on the watkins woofer would also change colour and deteriorate. I don't remember where I read it though...
anyone more info on this matter?

I have several old speakers with paper cones at house and they all sound fine.

anyone info one which is voicecoil one and voicecoil 2 on the watkins?
there should be a difference in impedance, and the crossover is different for both... on the crossover scheme is mentioned vc 1 and vc 2 (see scheme on www.infinityclassics.de) but it is not indicated which impedance should go where...
 
My last conversation with Watkins Stereo 2 months ago, they stated they no longer had any Watkins woofers available. They can fix your old ones but there are none to buy.
 
Well, they must have just recently quit fooling w/'em- I talked to Bill back in the spring, & was under the impression they still were available. Maybe I was mistaken, maybe they just offer rebuilding services on 'em now.
 
Sandy G,
No, you are correct. I spoke to him last week and again today. They are just back logged with work at the moment so they have not re-started up again. He plans to re-start very soon and they will be available. It is as you say.
Vito
 
meridian said:
I read somewhere that besides the foam, the paper cone on the watkins woofer would also change colour and deteriorate. I don't remember where I read it though...
anyone more info on this matter?

I have several old speakers with paper cones at house and they all sound fine.

anyone info one which is voicecoil one and voicecoil 2 on the watkins?
there should be a difference in impedance, and the crossover is different for both... on the crossover scheme is mentioned vc 1 and vc 2 (see scheme on www.infinityclassics.de) but it is not indicated which impedance should go where...
Click to expand...

Meridian,

per this brochure article (from Infinityclassics...where else eh?) http://www.infinity-classics.de/inf...antum-Line-Source-QLS-1/QLS_1_Brochure_02.jpg

the VC2 is the low impedence VC, which should be attached to the larger capacitor circuit for the lower cutoff point (Black wire on schematic).

In my Q2's the two red wires are attached to the terminals with a 4 Ohm stamp near them on the magnet. These I believe are the VC1 terminals. The other (VC2) should be the 2 ohm VC.

Regarding the deterioration of the paper cone Watkins woofers - mine are fine :thmbsp: Refoamed them and been playing great ever since.

keep us posted on how you make out and your listening impressions.
 
I read this thread too quickly, so I may have missed something. IIRC, the QLS-1s were not all alike. Earlier ones had paper cone Watkins woofers, while later ones had poly. I have been told that the very last few had IMG cones, but this seems unlikely and I have never seen an example.

My QLSs have poly cones. I've no idea if there are corresponding changes in the crossovers, but wouldn't be surprised. Just because Infinity didn't change documentation or make any announcement means nothing. back in those days, they changed specs upon whim.
 
Kencat, thx for the hint but are you sure it's like that?
problem is that my qls1's were rewired by the former owner and all original wires and colours are gone. I hope he kept everything correct according to the scheme...
I am looking for the orginal crossover filter also, only parts of it are left in my qls...
if anyone finds the crossovers please send me a message! thx!
 
meridian said:
Kencat, thx for the hint but are you sure it's like that?
problem is that my qls1's were rewired by the former owner and all original wires and colours are gone. I hope he kept everything correct according to the scheme...
I am looking for the orginal crossover filter also, only parts of it are left in my qls...
if anyone finds the crossovers please send me a message! thx!
Click to expand...

Well......It would be the direction I would take if in your situation. Per the Infinity brochure VC2 is the low impedance coil. Measure both coils, mark the lowest one as VC2 and wire it up per the schematic. Pending further clarification from anyone more experienced with rebuilding Quantums, that's all folks.

Sure wish a few more members would join in though, with their thoughts and opinions. Must be more people than you and I reading this (at least I hope so :sigh: ).

Sounds like you have a real project on your hands there. Are all the drivers intact and funtional ??? 16 Emits and 12 "tinsel lead dome mids could be a real challenge to have all working, especially if you don't even have complete xover networks. I am dreading the day one of my mids craps out......the repair procedure does not sound easy.

If I find any useful info I'll definitely let you know. There is a lot of good postings here on the AK Infinity Forum already. Go back to day one and read them all...
 
Kencat said:
Sure wish a few more members would join in though, with their thoughts and opinions. Must be more people than you and I reading this (at least I hope so :sigh: ).
Click to expand...

I am reading it and watching the project Ken, however, your knowledge surpasses mine in this area, so I am just your's and meridian's cheering section.
Vito
 
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