Old Empire Odd-Ball Speakers (Not Round Type w/ Marble Tops)

Hi, I have a set of Empire speakers that I've never seen ANYwhere; including the internet. They aren't the round cabinets either. I have yet to find ANY model numbers on these. They don't even say Empire; just have the "E" crown logo of front. On the hookups they tell that they were made in New York (I think) but thats about it. Took me forever to find out that they were Empire. These are more like a standard speaker box. I'd say about 1-1.5 cubic feet each box. All the sides, front and back have these raised "louvres" that are about one-eight of an inch wide that go from almost to the top and bottom. You cannot tell the sides from the back or front other than the tweeter sticking out. They have the tweeters sticking through the front; over the top of the louvres. It's round and looks like heavy aluminum with a dome tweeter and phase plug behind it. The crossovers (and hookups) are on the bottom of the cabinets. Also have a 3-way tweeter switch on bottom. The cabinets only have the top and bottom that come off by regular wood screws. The backs don't come off like a standard speaker. As far as the drivers or speakers themselves; they are HEAVY DUTY! Huge, huge, ugly and rough looking magnets (alinico I think). The speaker baskets are all a real brass-looking gold color. They have 10 inch woofer, about a 3 or 4 inch midrange and the tweeter is about 2 or 3 inches round. The drivers are all held in by funny looking "L" brackets that hold pressure on the speakers frames and are screwed into the wood itself. They are sealed cabinets. The last thing I will mention is the sound. These have a vintage British sound. REALLY deep articulated bass (effortless sounding) and very smooth (almost overpowering) midrange. The so-called tweeters highs are very upper-midrange/lower-treble sounding. I wouldn't call them tweeters by todays standards. Efficiency is about average; I'd say 88-90 dB/1 watt @ 1 meter. They are definitely odd-balls and that's why I've held onto them. They play perfectly without any problems. I have thought about sitting some other smaller speakers (in their own boxes) on top of them with decent tweeters to get the upper "crispy" treble. Other than that, I have NO complaints and will not bother the original setup. I will eventually redo the cabinets as they are pretty rough and ugly right now. Anyways, please send me any pictures of your odd (not round-marble top) Empire speakers. I think most of the Empire speakers have a bad reputation (especially the round ones with marble tops) but I cannot say enough good about this pair I have. I'm planning to hook these up to a tube amp to see what they sound like, I'm sure it will make them sound even better. Please tell me what model these are or ANY info about them. I can and will send photos of them later.

Thanks for any help...

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Old Empire Odd-Ball Speaker Pics

Okay, here is a couple of quick pictures of the Empire speakers I need info on. Can someone please identify them? :headscrat Thanks again!

I'm no help. I've never seen anything like them either.
I hope you can give us a couple shots of the innards.

Welcome to AK!

edited for stupidity

These have to be really early models. During the days it had the Grenediers (the cylinder models) it also had a more conventional bookshelf series that had louvers or slats but they are not anything what you're showing. I'd suggest opening them up and seeing if you can locate a date code. I'd guess maybe the mid to late '50s and at best very early '60s on these.

Are the wood frames solid wood or veneer?
It looks like mahogany. I agree with the 50s vin.. Something Lucy and Desi would own! Don't abuse them and take your time when you refinish them. I've never seen anything like them. They are real keepers in my book. Thanks

MoparMan said:

Okay, here is a couple of quick pictures of the Empire speakers I need info on. Can someone please identify them? :headscrat Thanks again!

Click to expand...

Those are outrageously hip!

:thmbsp:

Don't "improve" the cabinets, try and restore them as close as you can to original.

Can you take a picture of the woofers, mids, & tweeters too?

Do these help any? From my 1966 Lafayette catalog.

Before you blame the tweeters for not giving high treble, you might want to consider the possibility that the capacitors in the crossover have gone bad over time. I have even had speakers where there was no sound from the tweeters, but the tweeters themselves were perfect. Once I replaced the capacitors, all was well with them. Of course, it may be that your tweeters don't go that high, but I suspect that many vintage tweeters are given a bad reputation because of the capacitors in the crossover going bad over time.

Answers To Questions / Comments

These are definitely not Lafayette speakers... They are Empire for sure, because they have the old Dyna-Empire address on the hookups/crossovers. The more I ask and research; the more I'm finding out about them. I agree about replacing the capacitors in the crossover (I'm an electronics engineer). That's the first thing I'm going to do when I get time. I'm still not convinced they will have "todays treble" by any means. I think they are supposed to sound more like old AR3a's from what I keep reading about the Empire sound. I could be wrong; I have been before! The designer supposedly loved deep extended bass and a lot of midrange with laid back treble. I will send pictures of the speakers themselves when I get time. The speakers are solid wood; mahogany I think also. I have NO intentions on changing anything other than the caps in the crossovers. Thanks for all the comments and info. Keep them coming!

Sorry that I cropped the scan... those ARE Empire speakers, from a whole page of Empire speakers in that Lafayette catalog. I didn't even notice that the word "Empire" doesn't appear in their descriptions!

Oh! Sorry myself. I didn't pay much attention to the actual speaker descriptions. I just saw Lafayette and ran with it... Now I see the resemblece of the funky tweeter. Thanks for the extra info.

I remember seeing those things for sale in Polk Brothers, mid 60s I'm thinking.

MoparMan said:

As far as the drivers or speakers themselves; they are HEAVY DUTY! Huge, huge, ugly and rough looking magnets (alinico I think). The speaker baskets are all a real brass-looking gold color. They have 10 inch woofer, about a 3 or 4 inch midrange and the tweeter is about 2 or 3 inches round. The drivers are all held in by funny looking "L" brackets that hold pressure on the speakers frames and are screwed into the wood itself.

Click to expand...

Lets' see 'em!

These predate the marble topped hexagonal speakers. If I can find some old files I might have the spec sheet for them.

I did once, but I have moved since then. I'll see.

Empire Driver Pictures (Finally!)

Hi everybody, I finally had time to take a few pictures of the drivers in these mystery Empires. My memory of them might have made me exaggerate a little. The woofers magnet isn't quite as big as I remembered; but it's still big! Especially if it's alnico. I sure know the woofer IS heavy... It was all I could do to get it in and out of the cabinet using one arm. Also have trouble holding it to take the picture. Looks to be either 3 or 4 inch voice coil with inverted cloth surround. The tweeter and midrange do have pretty huge magnets. They really remind me of some of the old AR3/3a drivers or certain old Bozaks. There is NO date code on any of the speakers frames. As a matter of fact, there is no markings of any kind on them. The only number is on the back of the woofer cone as you can see in the picture. The number is stamped 907-C-503. Also notice that the magnet structures are bolted/screwed onto the drivers. The speaker baskets are all steel. Any ideas about the code stamped on the back of the woofer cone? One last thing, notice the 100v rating on the caps and the color of them. Do you think 1950s or 1960s era? I've hooked them to a small old tube amp that uses one 6MB8 tube for each side (dual mono) and they really came to life!!! Wasn't incredibly loud but plenty loud enough. Soundstage and frequency range was very impressive. I'd guess about 5 watts per channel. Before anyone asks, no I didn't solder those wire directly to the connectors on bottom of speaker cabinet. This was already done by someone else.

Here's The Missing Crossover Picture

Here is the missing crossover picture...

Great that you posted up some snaps. The Empire Grenadier 7000 used a woofer which was very similar. Empire liked using that 'bronzed' finish to their baskets. What are your plans for them? (I don't want them)

Plans For Empires

No offense but I wouldn't sell them even if someone wanted them. They are that good! I'm not kidding. I'm still in shock; especially after hearing them through tube power. I own about 20 sets of vintage speakers and have heard lots and lots of different types. I absolutely love the sound potential of these. I know they are pretty rough and funky looking but I'm going to keep them and restore them back to as close to original as possible. Recap the crossovers and then refinish the cabinets. Then I'll just keep them hooked up to one of my vintage tube amps and use them for critical listening and mixdown in my recording studio. They sound best with tubes I've found. I may add a little acoustic foam to the boxes to see if they improve but that's about it. I have some AR3a's and AR4's, JBL L100's, Infinitys, etc but they don't come close to the overall sound quality these have. I would compare them to vintage Altecs. These are some of the best sounding 10 inch vintage woofers I've heard. These beat many 12 inch I've listened to. You woudn't believe the amount of bass these are capable of. Not one note bass or muddy; very tight, controlled and deep. I'm only speaking of good vintage speakers here; I've not heard many hi-end speakers so I can't compare to them.

Plans For Empires

PS-I'm glad I found these and paid so little for them ($2 total!!!). Wonder what the deal is with the bronze finish; protection for the steel baskets??? Anyone know any other way I could find out the age of these since they have no date code anywhere?