Cat 5 braided & AR-3's

As always YMMV, this is only my opinion.

Some background info; My first step into this hobby came when a friend gave me a pair of road-weary AR-3's. In search of a solution to the infamous crusty level control problem I found and became a member of AK. Later in fact, so did he (Ozmoid). I've learned a great deal from my fellow members, and both he and I owe a ton to the friends we've made at AK.

Recently, Oz brought over a pair of hand-braided Cat 5 speaker cables, and gave them to me as a little audio present. He'd been reading up on the multiple threads about using Cat-5, and decided to make a few sets for himself. In the meantime (and I know it's not because he didn't have more important things to do) he made an extra set for me. Bless him.

I hadn't really been following the Cat-5 threads, and as a result wasn't aware of the following this tweak has garnered over the last few years. When Oz brought these cables over, we hooked my Dynaco A-25's up to them, and gave them a listen.

My A-25's are unmodified, and as such leave something to be desired in the crisp/clean/brilliant department. As a result, I often run a set of AR-4x's in conjunction with the A-25's when I have company over for a listen. When both pair are on, I can't hear the tweeters in the A-25's. They effectively disappear.

Once the A-25's were hooked up using the Cat-5, I was sure I could hear a difference in the bass (tighter, more defined) and the top-end (crisper and cleaner). Once I started running the 4x's alongside the A-25's the difference was apparent. The tweets in the Dynacos no longer disappeared when the 4x's were on... In fact they over powered the 4x's which were still hooked up using 14 gauge zip. But that's not what I came here to talk about...

Since I was so pleased with the A-25's, I decided to do a side by side with my AR-3's which had been in storage since I had done a re-cap and replaced the level controls. I hooked up the left channel with short run of zip-cord, and the right with Oz's Cat-5 cable. Switched my Yammie CR-820 to mono, and ran Steely Dan's "Aja", Jeff Buckley's "Grace", and Miles Davis' "Kind of Blue", three of my favorite test CD's.

Immediately, I noticed that the Cat-5 speaker lost some boominess in the bottom end, and seemed to be more open sounding in the midrange. As many who own AR 3-ways do, I've customarily run the midrange level-control at about 75% of full, as it historically was kind of punishing full out. I took a chance and went full out on the mid control, and voila! Beautiful, clean and open sounding with great projection and definition, without being in the least punishing, hot or distorted. In comparison the left channel receded into the back ground, becoming duller and less "present" in the mix even with both controls full out.

After several hours of fiddling and panning left/right between the two, I turned the system off, switched back to stereo, and hooked up both sides using the Cat-5. It's like having a new pair of speakers. I didn't have any idea that AR-3's were capable of this level of reproduction. The bass still has great extention, and seems to roll off near where it always has, but it does so in a much tighter and more precise fashion. The mids and tweets have a great deal more "air" and vocals & horns just jump off the recording and out into the middle of the room.

I tried to go about this as carefully as I could, so that I could relate my experience (positive or negative) with this tweak. I am well pleased, and feel that given the cost it's well worth making a pair to try. I've never really taken a position on cabling as I hadn't been able to try many of the different styles and price points. This one has worked for me, and I highly recommend giving it a listen.

Just my 2¢ worth...

Cat 5

Tell us more about the braided Cat 5. How is it braided and how many strands are in it?

I've read several web posts about it, from someone who strips off the insulation, separates the strands into solids and stripes and then braids the small wires to those who take n number of links and just braids the wire cover and all. One gentleman took three sets of three wires. He braided the three sets, then braided the sets together. He calculated this was equivalent to 10 gauge speaker wire.

We have an unfinished windowless 20x20 room with 10' ceilings in the basement that's planned to be the media room. The nice thing about Cat 5 is that it's rated for in wall installation, unlike standard speaker wire. I think I'll experiment with the intent of wiring my 7.1 system that way. Has anyone tried this?

Doug

Is someone calling ME a gentleman?





Nah, couldn't be.

Hey I get to mention this every so often. I cooked up a pair using this receipe:

http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

It's simple, but a fair bit of work, I did the math and it came to 216 lf of braiding for a 7 ft finished pair, iirc. There is also the terminating of 54 wires per side. Even if it's a simpler receipe, you've got a good friend there.

I didn't use Belden wire, but to get "teflon" look for PTPE, or "plenum rated".

Strange you should post this. Just last week I did a head to head with Monster 12ga zipcord style on my AR-9s, trying to figure out what is causing a harshness. The cat5 was "clearly" superior, in clarity and control, to my ears, ymmv.

Plus, everyone thinks they look cool. Sacrilege!!

Congrats!

Doug, I'd try out various ways, see how you like it.

Pete

DougMac said:

Tell us more about the braided Cat 5. How is it braided and how many strands are in it?

Click to expand...

Oz's formula is 4 wires per braid, stripes and solids so it effectively makes for four color-coded cables soldered on either end. My run is short (see the multiple threads where I mention that I live in a tiny house) so each cable is less than four feet. I have no idea what that adds up to gauge wise (mebbe 18-16 gauge?), math is not my strong suit.

piece-it pete said:

It's simple, but a fair bit of work, I did the math and it came to 216 lf of braiding for a 7 ft finished pair, iirc. There is also the terminating of 54 wires per side. Even if it's a simpler receipe, you've got a good friend there.

I didn't use Belden wire, but to get "teflon" look for PTPE, or "plenum rated".

Strange you should post this. Just last week I did a head to head with Monster 12ga zipcord style on my AR-9s, trying to figure out what is causing a harshness. The cat5 was "clearly" superior, in clarity and control, to my ears, ymmv.

Plus, everyone thinks they look cool. Sacrilege!!

Congrats!


Pete

Click to expand...

Amen Pete, he's a good 'un!

Speaking of harshness - That was my complaint with the 3's after the re-cap. Way too harsh in the mids and tweets, and tiresome in fairly short order. The Cat-5 cable has made them imminently more listenable.

They do look cool don't they?

I'm so sorry

piece-it pete said:

Is someone calling ME a gentleman?





Nah, couldn't be.

Click to expand...

No offense intented. Please ignore the moniker if it doesn't apply.

Doug

Thanks for kicking this off, Fotno!

I stripped the cable, and left the pairs twisted while separating them out, ending with 4 strands of twisted pairs. I braided three twisted strands, and made individual cables for each speaker's pos/neg - 4 cables for each speaker pair.

I used 24 ga. solid core ethernet, the cheapest stuff they had at Lowe's - .18 per foot.

I found the same thing Fotno did with my AR 2ax, but I was afraid I had colored my judgment because I had been reading too much about the cable. So I made a set and took them over with no comment other than "They look really cool, thought you'd like to try them" and left Fotno to his own devices (a dangerous occurrence, to be sure ).

I haven't really tried a lot of cables, and the ethernet was a real eye-opener. For the price, it gets a thumbs-up as a tweak. Some folks just use the straight cable and bundle all the wires together, some use the whole cable split into two pairs to drive one speaker with one cable, and every other variation.

If you want to do a simple test without going to the trouble of braiding the cable (I feel like John Lennon, I GOT BLISTERS ON MY FINGERS), use a single twisted pair for each connection - that should be enough to hear a difference if you're using plain old speaker cable or zip cord.

fotno said:

Oz's formula is 4 wires per braid, stripes and solids so it effectively makes for four color-coded cables soldered on either end. My run is short (see the multiple threads where I mention that I live in a tiny house) so each cable is less than four feet. I have no idea what that adds up to gauge wise (mebbe 18-16 gauge?), math is not my strong suit.



Amen Pete, he's a good 'un!

They do look cool don't they?

Click to expand...

Sorry, Fotno. It's three twisted pairs per braid, for a total of 6 individual wires.

I WANT to try a 4-pairs braid (for a total of 8 individual wires), but that will take a lot more cable, and it is much slower doing a 4-strand plait, different technique than a basic three-braid. My fingers are already aching just thinking about it...

I stand corrected - Told you math was not my strong suit!

If there's any worry on price I'd consider buying a 500lf spool, eaby or even the mentioned Lowes.

Pete

Would it be possible for one of you gentlemen to take a picture of what you are describing. I cannot seem to form a picture in my head of exactly you are doing with the braiding. Thanks.

I haven't tried long runs but I made the three twisted cables[24 wires[ and it's pretty decent sounding cable.
For 10ft. or less I prefer just using one cable and stripping the outer jacket and using just two pair each for pos and neg each channel.
For a 10ft pair you only need one 10ft cat 5.
Don't worry about cable being heavy enough as it handles 110w just fine.
IMHO it's much cleaner and eliminates some smearing in the mids. Bass is great.

Just wanted to chime in.

piece-it pete said:

Is someone calling ME a gentleman?





Nah, couldn't be.

Hey I get to mention this every so often. I cooked up a pair using this receipe:

http://www.venhaus1.com/diycatfivecables.html

It's simple, but a fair bit of work, I did the math and it came to 216 lf of braiding for a 7 ft finished pair, iirc. There is also the terminating of 54 wires per side. Even if it's a simpler receipe, you've got a good friend there.

I didn't use Belden wire, but to get "teflon" look for PTPE, or "plenum rated".

Strange you should post this. Just last week I did a head to head with Monster 12ga zipcord style on my AR-9s, trying to figure out what is causing a harshness. The cat5 was "clearly" superior, in clarity and control, to my ears, ymmv.

Plus, everyone thinks they look cool. Sacrilege!!

Congrats!

Doug, I'd try out various ways, see how you like it.

Pete

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, Pete! nice indepth discussion, and some ideas for next time. I had not come across the idea of splitting the solid/striped for your pos/neg before.

I think the theory is, the pos/neg running through the braids together reject interference and increase - inductance? Man, I'm over my head here! As in waaaay.

KingBubba, (great name!) there is a pic of the ones I made (although much more nicely terminated imo) at the posted link. A quick google search, like: diy cat5 speaker wire, would probably turn up a boatload.

Pete

fotno said:

As always YMMV, this is only my opinion.

Some background info; My first step into this hobby came when a friend gave me a pair of road-weary AR-3's. In search of a solution to the infamous crusty level control problem I found and became a member of AK. Later in fact, so did he (Ozmoid). I've learned a great deal from my fellow members, and both he and I owe a ton to the friends we've made at AK.

As many who own AR 3-ways do, I've customarily run the midrange level-control at about 75% of full, as it historically was kind of punishing full out. I took a chance and went full out on the mid control, and voila! Beautiful, clean and open sounding with great projection and definition, without being in the least punishing, hot or distorted.

... I didn't have any idea that AR-3's were capable of this level of reproduction. The bass still has great extention, and seems to roll off near where it always has, but it does so in a much tighter and more precise fashion. The mids and tweets have a great deal more "air" and vocals & horns just jump off the recording and out into the middle of the room.


Just my 2¢ worth...

Click to expand...

I realize you have AR-3's and NOT 3a's. Nevertheless, the design philosophy was consistent. From the attached it's clear that to get a "flat frequency response", both pots should be set to max with a slight treble increase.

Now, even if you comply with the recommended settings, you might still be getting somewhat “dull” mids and highs. The problem is the pot wipers. After close to 40 years they are corroded and add resistance where none was ever intended.

One of the practical, “least cost” solutions is to:

1. eliminate the tweeter pot entirely from the xover circuit
2. solder the wiper lead on the mid pot to the “top of the pot”


These will get you to a flat response and eliminate the pot wiper problem. Even if you completely repair the pots, they will immediately begin corroding again. The high current draw, coupled with dissimilar metals and heat just accelerates the corrosion process.

Hope this helps ….

Regards,
Jerry

onplane:

fotno said:

... had done a re-cap and replaced the level controls.

Click to expand...

Kingbubba, not a good shot but here's a pic - Fotno's are actually better braided than mine, I made his last. I learned a lot about handling the wire while making the first two sets, I have a feeling I'll be making more . The green is feeding the positive, the brown is feeding the negative, gives me 6 - 24 ga. wires to each terminal.

Oz is right onplane, my 3's are anything but stock at this point. The caps have been replaced in the circuit, and I grew so tired of fiddling with the level controls that I replaced them with PE units about a year ago.

The controls I used are not stock spec'd (16Ω instead of 8Ω) and as a result, my 3's sound different than any others I've heard. I like the result, but I get the feeling that other folks wouldn't, as it does change the fundamental sound somewhat.

Ohhh man. Im going to have to try this. Sounds like a fun winter "sit by the fireplace" project.

RC

A test would be to buy some of the 14 gauge wire you were previously using.Braid some(new)wire of the 14 gauge which you were previously using and leave some of the new 14 gauge as it was used previously.Purchase some Cat 5 but to leave it unbraided.See whether it's

The newness of the wire or

The braiding

Or forget about my suggestion,settle-back and enjoy your system.

Just a thought.:scratch2:

fotno said:

Oz is right onplane, my 3's are anything but stock at this point. The caps have been replaced in the circuit, and I grew so tired of fiddling with the level controls that I replaced them with PE units about a year ago.

The controls I used are not stock spec'd (16Ω instead of 8Ω) and as a result, my 3's sound different than any others I've heard. I like the result, but I get the feeling that other folks wouldn't, as it does change the fundamental sound somewhat.

Click to expand...

fotno, there is another solution to the pots and it's the solution that I use.

In short: bi-amp and completely eliminate the pots

I use two integrated amps and instead of pots on the speakers, I adjust volume controls to balance sound.

Regards,
Jerry