gdmoore28

Super Member
This is going to be as close as one can get to a "budget" Altec build considering the skyrocketing prices of classic Altec components. Like a lot of you guys and gals, I have little to no money to throw at these pieces, and the process of assembling them has taken three years of swapping and watching for good buys. I'll summarize for those that are interested.

The cabinets will be based on the Altec 606 corner cabinet: http://lansingheritage.org/images/altec/plans/1960's-lf-design/page15.jpg
This cabinet was chosen for a simple reason: I don't have space for anything larger.

Finding the Components (Skip this part if you like. It's just background info.)

I've been entranced by the look of the Altec 811/511 horns since I was a kid in the late fifties. So, yeah, this build is based a lot on nostalgia as much as anything else. But how to afford the components? I was fortunate to be good friends with an aging WWII vet and electronics technician in town and made sure that he knew where to sell his old vintage gear when he was ready. Shortly before his passing, he made the move. I ended up with a University S6 cabinet, two University C15W woofers, two University HF206 super tweeters, two University N3 crossovers, one Altec N500 crossover, one green and one black Altec 511, one Altec 802D, and one Altec 808, along with assorted Altec mounting hardware. Most of this gear was still new in the original boxes.

In short, selling almost all of the above gear allowed me to finance the A-7 components. I found a matching 802D and 511 horn in green to match the one I had, and located a very nice pair of 416-8Z woofers. The woofers are the ones that have the 16" cast frame, along with the "A" model alnico magnets. I believe these were the standard woofers in the 846Bs.

Altec 416 A-B 1.jpg

The Cabinets

Having finally located a local source for 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood at prices that earthlings can afford, I was ready to start cutting lumber when I stumbled across a pair of (don't laugh, yet!) new kitchen corner cabinets at the Restore store in town. Whipping out my tape measure I found that the cabinets were within one inch of the measurements of the 606s. For $40 I couldn't see passing these up as a great foundation for what I was about to build. Yes, a few mods and much re-enforcement will follow.

It was first necessary to cut back the front of the cabinets so that the fronts would give me the necessary minimum 24" for the 511 horn width. Plans are to re-extend the front of the cabinets 5.5" in order to recoup the lost volume. Plus, this will be a much more interesting look.

Altec 606 Cabinet Build 004.JPG Altec 606 Cabinet Build 006.JPG Altec 606 Cabinet Build 007.JPG

(The joints in these cabinets were simply stapled together, so I knocked them all loose enough to fill the joints with Titebond wood glue. They were then clamped back together as the glue dried.)

These cabinets came with four 1/2" shelves, which I bonded to the top and bottom panels. This, of course, yielded 1" thick panels. The side panels will be bonded to 3/4" Baltic Birch (for 1" side panels) which will extend 1" beyond the cabinet backs. Then, the same 3/4" BB plywood will be used to fabricate the back panels which will fit inside the recess. One of the back panels will be removable for service. More on this as I make progress.

I plan to make 5" risers under the enclosures, and these will be "kick-toed" back about an inch. Depending on how the calculations for volume work out, I may seal these risers and open them up for additional cabinet size. We'll see if it's needed.

I have a decent quantity of nice mahogany veneer that will eventually cover these, along with possible additional cabinet adornments courtesy of a local lumber reclaiming business. They frequently have a good volume of reclaimed cabinet trimmings from old homes that have been demolished. I love the look of fancy old cabinets, so maybe I can do that style here.

The Crossovers

This is the area that has given me the most headache so far. Even though I've been building speakers for over fifty years, I've always followed somebody else's designs. So, outside of installing a standard Altec crossover, it was necessary to design something. I am not trained in electronics, so the last two years I've been immersing myself in learning about crossover design, speaker measurement, yadda, yadda.

In the end, I've decided to start simply and modify as I have access to diagnostic equipment. So, for now, I'm going to use a simple second-order Linkwitz-Riley crossed at 800Hz, followed by the sixteen-ohm version of the Altec 30923 eq/attenuation circuit. As typical, my first intention was to use air-core inductors. Then, I ran across a fellow on ebay who builds really nice iron core versions from 14 guage windings and DCR readings on par with typical air cores. So, that's what I went with. The capacitors are motor start caps. Why? Because I've read good reports about them and (I'm ashamed to say) I dig the way they look. Sort of a Klipsch look. Here's what I came up with:

Altec Crossovers, Stage One 001.JPG Altec Crossovers, Stage One 005.JPG

More later. I'm old and my back is hurting.
Comments are quite welcome.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Last edited:
OK, to bring this up to date, I just had to try out the crossovers with my components to see how they sound, and what effect the 30923 network has on the horns. I recently picked up a Heathkit SS-1 and SS-1B cabinet pair for a song. I'm selling the components out of them, so I loaded the bass cab with an Altec 421 that has been reconed as a 416C, and placed the 511/802D on top.

The results were quite interesting. My concerns with using motor caps and I-core inductors were dismissed, as the crossovers are very smooth and silky sounding. No harshness, no graininess. Good. And the 30923 network works as advertized. The very forward mids are attenuated by 6db, and the highs are unaffected, making them move more to the forefront.

Still, probably because of my diminished hearing capacity, the very high frequencies are still not pronounced enough for me. I know that adding a super-tweeter to this combination has proven problematical for others who have tried it, but that still seems the most logical way to add in the sparkle that I want. So, later on I'll have to look at which super tweet to use, and how to properly integrate it into the system.

By the way, the Heathkit bass cabs worked quite well with this woofer. Despite obvious port problems, the combo produced very, very pronounced bass response. Much more than I was expecting. Hmmm.

Here are pics from a couple days ago as I was testing the gear. You will note in the crossover picture that the 16 ohm version of the 30923 eq/attenuation network has been added to the crossover board. I made it possible to wire the horn with or without the eq circuit for direct comparison.

Altec Experiments 001.JPG Altec Experiments 002.JPG Altec Experiments 003.JPG Altec Experiments 001.JPG Altec Experiments 002.JPG Altec Experiments 003.JPG

(Sorry for the double pics. I screwed up the file somewhere.)

It's going to be interesting to finally get some test equipment on the final result and have a chance to see what I'm hearing. There are definite improvements to be made.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Last edited:
You are making some good progress. Thats a great idea to use those corner kitchen cabinets!

I have always liked how the 606 cabs look. If I could get my wife to give up two corners in the livning room I would build a pair too:).

Just curious, what diaphragms are in your 802's? I only ask because some definitely have better HF extension than others. I have a pair or older Altec aluminum phragms that are in my 604's now. They were in 802D's before that. Anyways they have great extension.

I played with some Chinese phragms, as well as symbiotik, newer Altec phragms with the lighter mylar surround, and Radian phragms. None of those sound half as good as the aluminum diaphragms. The Radians don't sound too bad, but still need a super tweeter.
 
Thanks so much for the kind comments, my friend! I can't remember the numbers on the diaphragms right now, but I've checked them in the past and they are definitely the ones that came stock in the 802Ds.

I'm fairly certain that somebody with normal hearing would likely be satisfied with the HF response these are delivering now, but many years of playing drums in rock and roll bands has given me tinitits and rolled-off high frequencies. That's probably why I feel the need for some HF augmentation with these.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Yeah as a fellow drummer, I know what you are talking about. Drums are LOUD. I have an old Tama Imperialstar drumset that I don't play very much any more. Kids and work get in the way of that.
I did wear hearing protection about half the time when I used to play in a band. At least at practice I did.
Now working in hangar enviroment I try to wear earplugs as much as possible. I figure I'd rather lose my hearing listening to my Altecs, than to a bunch of rivet guns and screwknockers.

My Markwarts xovers have a circuit similar to the 30923. It shelves the midrange a bit. The only time I notice any HF missing is when I listen to newer music. My kids like some of the techno music like Daft Punk. A super tweeter would definitely do its job with that.

There are a lot of options for a super tweeter. Its pretty easy to bring one in high with just a cap and a L-pad for level control. I bet you could make it blend in pretty good
 
Yeah as a fellow drummer, I know what you are talking about. Drums are LOUD. I have an old Tama Imperialstar drumset that I don't play very much any more. Kids and work get in the way of that.
I did wear hearing protection about half the time when I used to play in a band. At least at practice I did.
Now working in hangar enviroment I try to wear earplugs as much as possible. I figure I'd rather lose my hearing listening to my Altecs, than to a bunch of rivet guns and screwknockers.

My Markwarts xovers have a circuit similar to the 30923. It shelves the midrange a bit. The only time I notice any HF missing is when I listen to newer music. My kids like some of the techno music like Daft Punk. A super tweeter would definitely do its job with that.

There are a lot of options for a super tweeter. Its pretty easy to bring one in high with just a cap and a L-pad for level control. I bet you could make it blend in pretty good

A fellow drummer! Imperialstars were a very popular set, weren't they? I used to work in a music/ProSound store, so I had the chance to play lots of different drums over the years. I've had Ludwig Classics, Yamaha Recording Customs and Maple Customs, Mapex Saturns, all the way "down" to Pearl Exports and Tama Rockstars, all of them accompanied by the same Zildjian/Sabian cymbals. Since 2000 I've been playing a six piece Pacific Maple CX drumset that I've come to love above all the others. These are the ones that DW made in their Mexican factory using US maple shells. At this age, I'll probably never buy another drumset.

Chrome Blue Practice - 4-5-15 035 - Copy (1).jpg

In the late nineties I was playing in a couple of very loud contemporary country bands and my ears were ringing constantly. So I had some custom-molded earplugs made and that ended the worst of the ringing. I wear those things religiously, even when attending concerts, which are always way, way too loud to enjoy otherwise.

GeeDeeEmm
 
I thought you were going to build the version with 2 woofers:oops: in each cabinet.

Well, I seriously considered it, but the price of two more woofers was just beyond my meager retirement finances! Never say never, though. If the clouds part and another set of 416s like mine find their way to my home, plans can always change!

I love the ones in your picture. And greenies, too!

GeeDeeEmm
 
Thats a nice drumset you have:thumbsup:. I have played acoustic drum sets most of my life. I got the Tama used in the mid 90's. Its a 9 piece. Bass, snare, 6 concert toms, and a floor tom. All Zildjian cymbals.
I bought an electronic set after I had kids. I could play through headphones and be pretty quiet. The set I have is not too expensive.
One of my buddies has a electric Roland set that is very nice with the mesh heads. Those are like 3 grand though.
 
Thanks so much for the kind comments, my friend! I can't remember the numbers on the diaphragms right now, but I've checked them in the past and they are definitely the ones that came stock in the 802Ds.

I'm fairly certain that somebody with normal hearing would likely be satisfied with the HF response these are delivering now, but many years of playing drums in rock and roll bands has given me tinitits and rolled-off high frequencies. That's probably why I feel the need for some HF augmentation with these.

GeeDeeEmm
It's extremely hard to beat Altec two channel sound with those nice horns.
Even if you have a little hearing issue going on , I just know that has to be a sweet sounding setup.
An 811 horn might sound a little better, It's really hard to say without listening in person.
If there is one thing I have learned building different combinations of Altec/JBL speakers , you just never know which horn will give the best results without listening to them both on the project.
You just can't go wrong with a two channel Altec project, it looks great.
 
Thats a nice drumset you have:thumbsup:. I have played acoustic drum sets most of my life. I got the Tama used in the mid 90's. Its a 9 piece. Bass, snare, 6 concert toms, and a floor tom. All Zildjian cymbals.
I bought an electronic set after I had kids. I could play through headphones and be pretty quiet. The set I have is not too expensive.
One of my buddies has a electric Roland set that is very nice with the mesh heads. Those are like 3 grand though.

My church uses one of the expensive Roland sets with all mesh heads, too. I've sat in a number of times on it and I just hate it. No doubt the electronics are a sound engineer's dream, and the sounds they make are extraordinary, but they are like playing on a mattress. The teenager who's taken over the drum chair now grew up on them, though, and he can make them sound marvelous. He's a really good drummer.

Back in the 1980s I had sold my new Ludwig classics and was looking for something different, so I bought a nine-piece set of CB700 round lugs (made by Pearl then). I found out really quick that I had more drums than I could deal with. Went right back to another Ludwig classic four piece!

Oh, well. I could talk about drums forever.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Great progress Gary, I have always liked the 606 cabinet. It was especially great to find the corner cabinet already built for you.
 
It's extremely hard to beat Altec two channel sound with those nice horns.
Even if you have a little hearing issue going on , I just know that has to be a sweet sounding setup.
An 811 horn might sound a little better, It's really hard to say without listening in person.
If there is one thing I have learned building different combinations of Altec/JBL speakers , you just never know which horn will give the best results without listening to them both on the project.
You just can't go wrong with a two channel Altec project, it looks great.

Thanks so much, Jack! I appreciate the comments. Well, due to the circumstances in the first post, I stumbled into the 511s. Having read the exhaustive work that the late Zilch did on a few Altec projects, decided to stay with the 511s simply because of the crossover frequency issue. One of the biggest revelations that I've had in speaker building over the years is the truth that large woofers crossed as low as possible sound much better. I hated to go to 800Hz on these, but I think the 802s will handle the load much easier at this frequency. I'd love to have a mid horn that would go to half that. But, alas . . . .

GeeDeeEmm
 
I'm probably more used to the mesh heads. My first drum was one of those practice pads when I was in band age 11. I was in the marching band for 3 years before I got my first drum set.

I had the opposite experience with the 511 horns. When I was running them on my A7's, I preferred the 800hz xover point. They seemed less "honky" crossed over higher. And I had them damped and bolted to the cabs.
I kept the 800hz xover and switched over to Emilar bowtie horns eventually.

I think its just a preference thing. I know people who love the 500hz xover point. Also people that won't go below 1200hz.
It could be a power handling issue depending on how loud you listen. I listen pretty loud and that could have been my issue. I might have been pushing the diaphragms too hard
 
I had the opposite experience with the 511 horns. When I was running them on my A7's, I preferred the 800hz xover point. They seemed less "honky" crossed over higher.

Oh, I agree completely. My remark on the crossover point was specifically about the response of the woofer. I don't know why, but my hearing is easily aggravated by the lower midrange frequencies when they are produced by a woofer. Of course, this will vary greatly according to circumstances, but as a general observation of my preferences, it holds well.

In a couple of builds I crossed the woofs at 400hz over to cone midrange drivers and the result was just what I was looking for. No horns involved, of course.

And, yes, I'm sure that volume has a lot to do with this. I rarely listen at loud volumes, so a speaker coasting along at just over speaking level is typically what I'm listening to.

GeeDeeEmm
 
Back
Top Bottom