Tube vs Solid State Shoot-Out

toddalin

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
A local member on the forum asked that I do a tube amp vs solid state comparison using Right on for the Darkness (Vanessa Fernandez, SACD) on both the tube amp and solid state amp.

This is an SACD played on an Oppo95. The stereo direct RCA plugs (Canare 18 gauge) feed the "Pure Direct" on a Yamaha RX-Z9 solid state receiver (20 years old with well over 30,000 hours), rated at 170 WPC into the 6 ohm load. The speakers are connected with 14 gauge OFC cable.

The Oppo XLR stereo direct plugs (16 Monoprice/18 gauge Canare) feed to the Melton KT-88 (P/P KT-88s) rated at 80 WPC (purchased new last year with ~60 hours now). The speakers are connected with 12 gauge OFC cable.

The volumes were matched using the both the 1 kHz tone and pink noise tracks on the Stereophile test disk and ultimately matched to within less than 0.1 dBA using the pink noise track.

Nothing was moved or disturbed in the room at any time when comparing equipment.

The Vanessa Fernandez track was first played on the Yamaha (digital volume control in 0.5 dB steps) to establish the optimum camera recording level and the values recorded.

The camera was replaced with a professional sound level meter, the Vanessa disk was replaced with the Stereophile test disk and the levels for the Yamaha were recorded for the 1 minute track (Leq, Lmax, Lmin. L02, L08, L25, L50). To be statistically significant, this was repeated twice and the results of the three sets of measurements were within 0.1 dBA.

The track was changed to the Pink noise track and again, the levels were recorded for three sets of readings of the 2 minute track. The Yamaha was then shut off.

The speakers were then switched to the Melton and the amp was allowed to play a disk for over an hour before any testing.

I then put the 1 kHz track on the Melton and after many, many, many back and forth attempts on the Alps dial I was able to get the Melton to play the 1 kHz track within 0.1 dBA of the Yamaha and did three sets of readings. I then did three sets of reading using the Pink noise and of course because of the tube rolloff, this was 0.8 dB less than on the Yamaha.

I feel that Pink noise is better for comparison and brought the Pink noise on the Melton up to the level of the Yamaha (within 0.1 dBA) for the comparison.

So, at this point the Yamaha and Melton are within 0.1 dBA at that particular spot on the dial and I made the recording of Vanessa on the Melton.

I shut off the Melton, changed the speakers back over, and let the Yamaha warm up for an hour before making the same recording without moving the camera nor disturbing ANYTHING in the room other than my presence starting/stopping the recordings.

Know that if you find the recordings bright, both the 10" and Heil have L-pads turned to full, which provides the flattest response across the band, even if it does sound bright. And it may be that you find the tube too dull and the solid state too bright, which shows the importance of matching equipment and speakers for your taste.

Also, realize that when you sit back into the couch, the proximity of the cushions, as opposed to a camera tripod sitting up over the couch) takes a lot of brightness out. Even a few inches can make a difference which is why it was so important not to move the camera between recordings.


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That was well conducted, and a good system. I can tell a difference between the two that is distinct. I believe I prefer the solid state, but I also think it is more tiring than the tubes.
 
Interesting shootout, thanks..
To be transparent, I use a galaxy tab when perusing AK.. not the best sound system to listen to a comparison between tube and ss..
So I added a pair of anker soundcore bt headphones.. and I can honestly say that I really like Vanessa.. :D



To be completely truthful, the yamaha( with my hi quality listening combo) sounded much less bright than the Melton..
That surprised me..

Now I'll turn off noise cancelling and try again, because I wanna hear Vanessa again.. :music:
 
My tiny computer speakers aren't good enough to tell them apart! Both sounded nice though.
 
Great job! A very good SS verses tube demonstration. I can hear the comparison clearly. The best I’ve heard on the Internet. The SS has more pronounced mids and highs, the tubes are smoother with the tube presence throughout its full range, and the bass sounds good on both. I like how they both sound and it’s why I own and listen to both too. You have some nice audio components and your room is good too. Nice choice of song. Thank you.
 
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I was gonna edit my op, but thought it was better to do another..

Great post @toddalin ..!!

I was a bit distracted by the whales, the vettes, the room, and the guy in the mirror..

:D
 
Great post and approach - easy to hear the difference. Comes across immediately in the first few drum beats....

jblnut
 
Are those ESS Heil tweeters?

Yes, with modifications.

And based on my videos and equipment, if one wants to use the Heil as a tweeter/supertweeter, rather than an extension into the midrange, they should be using solid state amplification to get the most out of it including highs and detail.
 
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Yes, with modifications.

And based on my videos and equipment, if one wants to use the Heil as a tweeter/supertweeter, rather than an extension into the midrange, they should be using solid state amplification to get the most out of it including highs and detail.
Exactly what I am doing. Although my reason is because the Heils are much lower efficiency than my FR drivers, which I don't like the sound of padded down.
 
Exactly what I am doing. Although my reason is because the Heils are much lower efficiency than my FR drivers, which I don't like the sound of padded down.

These are the crossovers I developed for the Mermans. The Heil crosses over at 2,150 Hz. I'm using JBL 2241H 18" and 2251J 10" and still reduce the volume on the Heil. I also put a diffraction lens infront of it to reduce its peak and padding behind it to attenuate the sound from the rear. And there are those that would still say that they are bright.

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BTW, for this next video, the camera was a couple inches lower than on the Vanessa videos and you can hear how just a few inches can shift the frequency balance. This is played on the Yamaha and is about the height that I actually listen at.


And here it is on the Melton. In this case, the levels were set using the camera and are within ~1 dB. BTW, in both sets of videos, the Melton is the slightly louder of the two.

 
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A local member on the forum asked that I do a tube amp vs solid state comparison using Right on for the Darkness (Vanessa Fernandez, SACD) on both the tube amp and solid state amp.

This is an SACD played on an Oppo95. The stereo direct RCA plugs (Canare 18 gauge) feed the "Pure Direct" on a Yamaha RX-Z9 solid state receiver (20 years old with well over 30,000 hours), rated at 170 WPC into the 6 ohm load. The speakers are connected with 14 gauge OFC cable.

The Oppo XLR stereo direct plugs (16 Monoprice/18 gauge Canare) feed to the Melton KT-88 (P/P KT-88s) rated at 80 WPC (purchased new last year with ~60 hours now). The speakers are connected with 12 gauge OFC cable.

The volumes were matched using the both the 1 kHz tone and pink noise tracks on the Stereophile test disk and ultimately matched to within less than 0.1 dBA using the pink noise track.

Nothing was moved or disturbed in the room at any time when comparing equipment.

The Vanessa Fernandez track was first played on the Yamaha (digital volume control in 0.5 dB steps) to establish the optimum camera recording level and the values recorded.

The camera was replaced with a professional sound level meter, the Vanessa disk was replaced with the Stereophile test disk and the levels for the Yamaha were recorded for the 1 minute track (Leq, Lmax, Lmin. L02, L08, L25, L50). To be statistically significant, this was repeated twice and the results of the three sets of measurements were within 0.1 dBA.

The track was changed to the Pink noise track and again, the levels were recorded for three sets of readings of the 2 minute track. The Yamaha was then shut off.

The speakers were then switched to the Melton and the amp was allowed to play a disk for over an hour before any testing.

I then put the 1 kHz track on the Melton and after many, many, many back and forth attempts on the Alps dial I was able to get the Melton to play the 1 kHz track within 0.1 dBA of the Yamaha and did three sets of readings. I then did three sets of reading using the Pink noise and of course because of the tube rolloff, this was 0.8 dB less than on the Yamaha.

I feel that Pink noise is better for comparison and brought the Pink noise on the Melton up to the level of the Yamaha (within 0.1 dBA) for the comparison.

So, at this point the Yamaha and Melton are within 0.1 dBA at that particular spot on the dial and I made the recording of Vanessa on the Melton.

I shut off the Melton, changed the speakers back over, and let the Yamaha warm up for an hour before making the same recording without moving the camera nor disturbing ANYTHING in the room other than my presence starting/stopping the recordings.

Know that if you find the recordings bright, both the 10" and Heil have L-pads turned to full, which provides the flattest response across the band, even if it does sound bright. And it may be that you find the tube too dull and the solid state too bright, which shows the importance of matching equipment and speakers for your taste.

Also, realize that when you sit back into the couch, the proximity of the cushions, as opposed to a camera tripod sitting up over the couch) takes a lot of brightness out. Even a few inches can make a difference which is why it was so important not to move the camera between recordings.


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I'm skeptical of the whole idea of demoing this kind of thing online... With all of the variables of the mics, the recording, the compression added online and the coloration of the system that's being used to reproduce the whole thing, it seems like there's little chance of a really pure, objective type comparison. In light of that I wonder what differences you heard in the room and what your preferences is?
 
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I know that over my Advent computer monitors, sitting here at my monitor, it sounds pretty much like it sounds in the room except of course for the soundstage and imaging which are lacking. But if you listen closely, you can hear that the Nikon D750 is infact picking up stereo and there is separation in my computer monitors, though not to the same extent as in the room. I personally prefer the detail of the Yamaha, but I'm a scientist and a very detail-oriented person. But some prefer the Melton.

This is an audio website and I would hope that people on it would have at least decent systems/headphones to listen to while viewing it. Would anyone go to a gaming website with a 640 x 480, 256 color video card and expect any kind of representative results of what's possible? Should other gamers "dumb down" their systems to accomodate such people?

The primary coloration is from the room itself. But, you can go to the direct transfer to YouTube and hear what room coloration and its reverb do. This is a big room.


Something else you can do too. Make your own recording, as good as you can, and put it on YouTube and listen to it. How close does it sound to what you recorded? What are the differences? Recognize that you will probably hear similar differences in other videos. Satisfy yourself.
 
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Thank you.... and curse you! I’ve told myself I don’t want to get into tubes and now you’ve got me thinking about it again.
 
An interesting subjective assessment.

Would have been interesting to have had four others in the room to take notes, without talk, then to compare findings afterwards.

I know this is a really small sampling, but it would have been interesting to see the results from all five listeners.

There are many factors in testing.



Q
 
I hear a clear difference and I prefer the solid state version. Much more detail.

I listed to it with my Sansui AU-X711 and RSL Elans.

Rob
 
An interesting subjective assessment.

Would have been interesting to have had four others in the room to take notes, without talk, then to compare findings afterwards.

I know this is a really small sampling, but it would have been interesting to see the results from all five listeners.

There are many factors in testing.



Q


But only one listener can sit in the sweet spot at any given time. All five listeners would hear the same thing (i.e., Yamaha is brighter, "sharper," and more articulated), but just may have a different impression of what they prefer based on their experience and taste.
 
Agree w/more detail w/SS, but for me after a while fatigue starts to set in, so it’s back to tubes. IME.

Edit; A good tube amp doesn’t give up much detail, if any. Again IME.
 
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