What to do with Altec A7 cabs..?

[titanstats]

Well, the odds are that I'll be picking up a pair of empty A7 cabs tomorrow -- question is, what to do with 'em? The Altec fiend in me says to eventually track down a set of original drivers and horns, do a repaint/restore, and end up with a nice authentic pair of A7s. :thmbsp:

However...the part of me that has been lurking on some of the Altec discussions on the board (Zilch and co) has me seeing this as an opportunity to try something different. I cannot bring myself to alter the stock Altecs that I own; maybe this is the time to try some of those BMS drivers, and maybe something different on the lower end, and a different crossover. Maybe even paint them something different than gray (heresy?), or even try veneering the big bastards.

I've always liked the stark, no-nonsense industrial look of these, but as I'll be buying just the slightly beat empty cabs, I'm feeling pretty free to experiment right now. Any suggestions, guys, or is this just a stupid idea I'm having due to the fact I haven't purchased anything in a couple of weeks? Would appreciate some input before I head out with some cash.

 

[djnagle]

Hi Titan, Those are great looking cabs. I had the A7 for a long time and give many hours of thought into what I would do differently. I would use the 515B driver in the cab with a pair of Edgarhorn 350hz tractrix horns on top with 288C drivers. Then I would close off the front horn from the back horn and install a front firing JBL 18" sub in the bottom. Those things would rock. I have saved a long discussion thread from the unofficial Altec site about doing the sub thing in the bottom. I think it is too long to post here but if you email me, I'll email it back. Cheers.

 

[Zilch]

You know my view on this then. There's little point in doing a vintage restoration. The box is a bass bin with known limitations, but also unique bass horn sound. Tom Brennan posted what Danley did to "fix" the A7 cabs for use with contemporary JBL drivers. All of that is invisible, as I recall.

If you feel you MUST use Altec horns, modify 511s to accept large format drivers, 1.5" throat, 511E equivalent. 511Es are too dear. Any competent machinist can make them out of 511s, which is what Altec did. Talk to MacAltec about doing that, maybe. JBL 2452H-SL would be my current driver of choice, but you might start with BMS 4555 experimentally. JBL 2435HPL with beryllium diaphragm is another good one, and I have run that on 2352 successfully. Well, spectacularly, in fact.

Frankly, 511s are not all that in comparison to modern horns. If you can get past wanting the vintage A7 "look," then JBL 2352 would be my first choice. The big Klipsch Tractrix on Jubilee would be worth a look, as well. For a smaller horn, it'd be JBL 2381, which will easily fit inside the box, inverted.

Biamp with active crossover plus passive compensation network, as required, finding the optimum frequency for any particular combination empirically. My guess is that M19's 1.2 kHz is too high for the bass horn, but that would depend upon the capabilities of the specific driver used in it and the dispersion characteristics at the crossover frequency.

Get measurement capability, if you don't already have it, 1/6 octave RTA, minimum....

 

[similost]

mmmm... lots of possibilities...

Although I know Zilch isn't an altec fan, I am... and I would do the 511 with a 902 driver on them up top, then I would do the 515B in the cabs too.. BUT.. that is because I really like the Altec sound, like many others do...

However, if I had money, I would put something like a 1005 tar filled, or even better a 1505 tar filled up top, but I have no money like that.. too many Koreans and Japanese guys out there with lots of money that can afford to spend stupid cash on them since the dollar sucks... BUT.. Myself, a large format horn like that would be the choice if i had the money...

I really love my 7s, and will NEVER part with them. Not only do they sound great, but they look cool.. at least to me, and that's all that matters. Yes, they don't have a bottom end to them, so that's why I use a separate bass bin...

Movies around my house are just like being at the theatre, and the musicians sound like they are right there with me...

SO, that's the reason I wouldn't stray from the original Altec drivers and horns myself.. Just something about their sound you know when you hear.. you don't even have to see the speakers to know..

 

[bowtie427ss]

My guess is that M19's 1.2 kHz is too high for the bass horn, but that would depend upon the capabilities of the specific driver used in it.

To my ears, 960-970hz is about as high as the bass horn wants to play nicely.

The cosmetics are at least half the reason to go with A7 given today's technology and resources, you can easily get as much or more sound quality and quantity from a package 1/3 the size. With that said, i'd not consider anything but an Altec horn to top the system off.............. the cosmetic thing ya know.

I have to agree with djnagle in that 515b or 515LF are hands down the best sounding drivers you can load in an altec horn. BUT, they're too cost prohibitive for most folks, myself included after considering my overall goal with A7's. You can buy cabinets and fully load them with other components for just the cost of a pair of "good" 515's.

FWIW, i know two different fellas who have tried the approach of sealing off the bass horn's backbox, and loading JBL 2245 woofers in them. End result was a lot of wasted time and money, and 2 pairs of nice vintage VOTT boxes on the bonfire. Search the Altec board for some more first hand results of this "wonderful" mod.

Those are nice boxes, restore them properly or leave em to someone who will.

My .02 y'all understand...........................

 

[titanstats]

Cosmetics matter to me (but so does cost! )-- on the other things, I am willing to experiment. I currently have three sets of speakers with the 811b/806a/416 driver compliment and a pair of 14s, so I know what those sound like. I'm curious about the BMS drivers that Zilch has been using -- they guys seem to like them, and the price is resonable. I'll try to hunt down a pair of 511s, I think, then go from there, but it's not written in stone. I know there are plenty of you out there with much more experience than myself, so the input is appreciated. :thmbsp:

 

[x_25]

Give them to me. I will put the 15's from my JBLs in them until I can track down some altec drivers.

Seriously though, I have always thought they would look good in a Walnut veneer. So give that a try. :thmbsp:

 

[m4rz]

I don't know 1/10th the stuff you guys do and even understand less than that. For me I am going to try the jbl horns with the with the selenium D220Ti drivers (as per Zilch's post). Just to get me to a sound that I can begin to understand...all the while trying to get 511s and drivers so that I can get that Altec look. My goal is to use them for 2 channel music, then use them for my HT. I know this isn't all that popular, buy I want to give it a shot as they weren't all that expensive.
I already have 2 amps that I could use for bi-amping, and this is my goal. I also understand the bass portion, so once I begin to understand this stuff a little more, I will either buy one that compliments or build one.

Just my 2c's, but it's not really worth that much yet.

Zilch...u don't like Altecs?!?!

 

[similost]

Give them to me. I will put the 15's from my JBLs in them until I can track down some altec drivers.

Seriously though, I have always thought they would look good in a Walnut veneer. So give that a try. :thmbsp:

I had thought too it would be cool to venere mine, but I got no clue how to do that AND make it look good.. I know glue it on, but corners and seams would be my problems.

 

[Zilch]

Zilch...u don't like Altecs?!?!

I have had random encounters with Altecs for over 40 years, and made a conscious decision 20 years ago whether I would "specialize" in Altec or JBL. Based upon a largely subjective evaluation of the products and support available at that time, JBL won out.

Recently, some LHF forum pals asked if I would evaluate Valencias and recommend ways to upgrade them. I did that, and the process and results are documented there and here on AK. In the course, I learned a bit about what of Altec works and why, and continue to investigate and advise based upon what I know.

I have nothing against Altec, and rather like some of the components, actually. But, just as with JBL, there's good and there's not so good. My major issue with Altec is that it's so difficult to ferret out the facts. It's like a subjectivist cult, and as an objectivist, I'm mostly stuck with figuring it out for myself. If there are people who actually know this stuff, they seem determined to keep it to themselves.

Anyone who makes the effort to objectively evaluate what's available will soon discover and conclude it's not all what devotees make it out to be, and frankly, I've long since learned not to listen to any of it but the facts. On the basis of those, there are clear indications of what works, and what doesn't, what's good, and what's not, which define an efficient and effective course for success working with Altecs. I give my best advice based upon what I know, and fortunately, even enthusiasts are less offended by that than once was the case. I'm not an Altec basher, rather, in my own way, more of an Altec enthusiast, myself.

I think Speakerdave summed it up well over on LHF:

This kind of discussion reminds of how often ontogeny recapitulates philogeny in this hobby. Even now people want to go through the same steps with Altec that many went through decades ago.

The one thing that stock classic Altec certainly works for is an introduction to very dynamic audio speakers. After awhile though the truncated frequency extremes and the raspy midrange persuade you it's OK to get rid of them. At least that's the progression I went through with my Heath Legatos and Altec A-7's-as-furniture Magnificents.

It's nice that today a lot of people, including Altec, have found solutions to some of those problems without compromising the fundamental dynamism. <*snip*> Eventually even Altec developed, for home use, a woofer that would produce very low frequencies in a reasonable sized--and sealed-- enclosure (the 411) , a couple of UHF drivers to use above the horns, though they saw very limited production, and a four-way monitor.

Basically, two-ways using the classic drivers, are not viable by today's standards. JBL has produced some successful two-ways in the past couple of decades, but only by using extraordinary efforts of engineering. Most recently, improvements in compression drivers have made it possible to entertain the prospect of viable two-ways, but that does not mean resurrecting the older equipment and using it in stock form is going to meet with the same success.

Still, the classic Altecs--the 416's and 414's, the 515's, the 802's, the 604's--offer the tantalizing prospect of having relatively simple and dynamic--and not bank-busting--speakers that will do the job, so it's understandable that they remain on the DIY scene....

 

[similost]

To clarify myself on my "Zilch isn't an Altec fan".. I meant as in the sense some of us others are. I've never heard him really bash them, but point out their actual weaknesses... and he has done a great job ferriting those out, along with many other brands.

I know he is a JBL fan, as I am too, but I like Altec better. He has pointed out a lot of weaknesses with JBL's too...

I have to say, Zilch is a data person.. I'm an "ears" person. I'm not a fan of really flat neutral sounding speakers as I think Zilch is.. so I think he understood me when I said he wasn't a fan.. I just meant he would prefer something else.. Hope no one else misunderstood what I was saying, and a few know I was giving him a little bit of friendly crap too..

 

[m4rz]

lol...sorry I didn't mean to start anything! I was just surprised as the Altec and JBL horn thread was very informative albeit a little over my head right now. I appreciate objective result oriented conclusions.

I guess being relatively new on the forum, and of course text sucks for emotion, it was really more of surprise than anything else, particularily since Zilch has been so helpful...thanks again zilch!

I am also more of an ears person, and I figure wth I will give the A7's a shot. One of the most constructive comments for me was to try the jbl's and seleniums to see if in fact I do like the sound. BTW...I can be told I am full of you know what and still not get offended.

 

[similost]

Well.. I can be full of Wank myself.. D) but personally myself for a nice pair of 7 cabs, I'd have to keep the horn original , and would like to on the LF too, but I would consider another brand driver, especially if it could reach a little lower, but still had the great mids.. To me, it's pretty hard to beat the sound of the Altec horn. No, it may not be perfection, but it sure is all it's own, and very pleasant... to me..

Speaking of originality.. my LF drivers have been rebuilt using EV cones.. I know they probably don't sound true Altec, but I would bet very close... I probably couldn't hear a difference if I sided them to the originals..

 

[RussinOhio]

"What to do with Altec A7 cabs...?"



Load them!

 

[m4rz]

You know what I like the best about the A7's????? They drive the wife nutsola. Every time she goes downstairs, I can hear and feel the hot air leave her

 

[similost]

You know what I like the best about the A7's????? They drive the wife nutsola. Every time she goes downstairs, I can hear and feel the hot air leave her

My wife was not a fan of them either when she saw them.. but after listening to them, she has become a real trooper, and said she doesn't want them gone because they sound too good... I think that is some testament to their sound, and why I wouldn't mess with it too much.. Looks are easily over come after applying power :yes:

 

[m4rz]

True, I am just waiting for some parts, so I have exiled them to a corner of the basement so she doesn't really notice them. When I do get them up and running, my plan is to put one on each of the sliding glass doors, turn 'em up, and see if I can hear them from the riding lawnmower! God I love getting old!

Jokes aside, I am sure that I will enjoy them, but right now I am in the "experimenting with gear" mode to see what I like the best.

 

[dread31]

Gotta agree with Simi; 902 on the 511 horn. And I've found the "remove the loading cap and line the outer cap with felt" tweak to be quite favorable to my ears. My bass cabs have the 416b drive in them, which is pretty good, but I've heard the 515 is somewhat better. It's true, however that the bass doesn't reach down very far, so you may find some augmentation necessary for the deepest of bass. At any rate, A7s are fun to tweak and play with. They lend them selves to it quite well.

Have fun and keep us posted.

Dave

 

[willie1]

:scratch2::scratch2:


oh ya

 

[m4rz]

DUDE!!!! now that's what a mancave should be like...them horns they are a blowin!