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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker

Vaughn said:
Two way, a little larger in size than the ULA's. Here is a pic...

marantz6g.jpg
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Hey, before hacking these up... you might want to read this (from here: http://www.audioholics.com/educatio...oudspeakers-when-is-good-enough-enough-part-1 ):

From the beginning I was taught that Bart Locanthi's main goal in designing a good speaker was to design an accurate speaker. And by that he meant get the frequency response as flat as possible; with the individual drivers first, then with the system. Next, look at the system's impedance curve. If you had to tweak the crossover a bit so that the system never went below 4 ohms, then do it. This was the only time a bit of linearity in frequency response could be given up.

Marantz Imperial 6 speakers The Marantz Imperial 6 was the first speaker Dawson had designed after Bart Locanthi had completed the lab/listening room set-up along with teaching his speaker design methodology to Dawson. We speaker novices would listen to the Imperial 6 all day long in between setting up other tests. It was a paper-cone 10" two-way with a phenolic ring (edge) cone tweeter. The woofer had a doped cloth surround and all cabinet parts where of ¾" veneered particleboard. In the lab the Imperial 6 measured ± 1.5 dB, 60Hz to 17,000Hz. It had a real walnut cabinet and retailed for $129.00 each. Guess what? It didn't sell worth beans.
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Those may be worth saving, in stock form, due to significance (Bart Locanthi!) and rarity. But, if you DO Ewave, at least you KNOW the woofer isn't going to be a problem!

Regards,
Gordon.
 
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Gordon's the pro but I've yet to hear a paper cone tweet that could hold a candle to a compression driver and a waveguide. YMMV.
 
The dispersion of the Ewave HF setup will certainly kick the crap out of a cone tweeter.

The only reason I would hesitate on this one, is that it was one of the RARE speakers in the early 1970s, that actually WAS designed with absolute linearity of response as its FIRST OBJECTIVE. With assistance of Bart Locanthi...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
GordonW said:
The dispersion of the Ewave HF setup will certainly kick the crap out of a cone tweeter.

The only reason I would hesitate on this one, is that it was one of the RARE speakers in the early 1970s, that actually WAS designed with absolute linearity of response as its FIRST OBJECTIVE. With assistance of Bart Locanthi...

Regards,
Gordon.
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Absolute linearity of response... on the design axis. This is a common thing nowadays... what Ewave is about is consistent OFF axis response, which few of this type of speaker seem to do very well, though some do a pretty decent job of simply increasing directivity with frequency. Most just bulge at the crossover then taper back down, as we see with so many of the polars.

I'd say that designing for on axis linearity first and foremost is probably the wrong approach to speaker design. Nothing against Bart natch.
 
von.ah said:
How's this for a crazy idea?

Use this CTS Piezo driver with the Econowaveguide...

http://www.adelcom.net/MOTOROLA_ksn1188a.htm

See this post from an old thread...

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showpost.php?p=753048&postcount=21

Could this work? :nutz: One could greatly reduce the crossover parts count to a cap and an L-pad depending on the woofer...
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Interesting idea, though the 1188 is just as expensive as the 220.

Datasheet

http://piezosource.com/general/datasheets/Piezo_1188_datasheet.pdf

Best price I found on quick search:

http://www.speakerrepair.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=genem&Product_Code=04-205&Category_Code=add_q_piezo
 
Hey guys, I'm thinking about building one of these for my car with an 6.5-8" driver. What recommendations can you make? I obviously won't be able to use the same waveguide either.
 
Tube King said:
Hey guys, I'm thinking about building one of these for my car with an 6.5-8" driver. What recommendations can you make? I obviously won't be able to use the same waveguide either.
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I've used the JBL 6" X 6" $6 square WG with teh Selenium with good results. The whole rig was shallow enough to fit in an LS3/5A size cabinet with a B110. Same basic Ewave XO applies, but I think the sensitivity is (subjectively) lower than the 12" X 6.5".
 
Bauhausler said:
PE said on the phone that they send out emails on back orders when they're over 30 days old but I didn't get one. Their other emails do get through. I suppose that's a sensible policy if it works.
That's too bad, I guess they should have updated you, at least no one was ripped off.



I'm resisting finishing these speakers because then my boss, who owns my second ewaved OLAs from teh magazine article, will 'borrow' them and I'll have to find something else to listen to.
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Better build 2!




I've been working on tube amp stuff instead of speakers lately because:
1) I'm working out a new topology and it's very time consuming
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Lets see what youre doing there!

Russellc
 
Bauhausler said:
I've used the JBL 6" X 6" $6 square WG with teh Selenium with good results. The whole rig was shallow enough to fit in an LS3/5A size cabinet with a B110. Same basic Ewave XO applies, but I think the sensitivity is (subjectively) lower than the 12" X 6.5".
Click to expand...

Interesting, E'wave moving into car stereo systems!:scratch2:

Russellc
 
badman said:
Absolute linearity of response... on the design axis. This is a common thing nowadays... what Ewave is about is consistent OFF axis response, which few of this type of speaker seem to do very well, though some do a pretty decent job of simply increasing directivity with frequency. Most just bulge at the crossover then taper back down, as we see with so many of the polars.

I'd say that designing for on axis linearity first and foremost is probably the wrong approach to speaker design. Nothing against Bart natch.
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True, I think what Gordon is saying is that yes its a fine woofer, but this was a small speaker with a little historical design signifigance is all.:yes:

russellc
 
Interested in Econowave

I'm interested in upgrading my front 3 speakers to Econowaves for HT use. The center speaker would have to go below the TV. How well would an Econowave laid on its side work as a center channel? Would this compromise the sound dispersion pattern or anything like that?

With all the Econowave variants out there and 700+ pages of information I'm also bit confused on which version to build. Which one is the best sounding Econowave to date? Are there any plans to build one using a 15" or 18" woofer for even more bass impact?
 
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Russellc said:
Lets see what youre doing there!

Russellc
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Kegger and I are working on a Big Announcement for a ridiculously cheap high power SE amp. No peeking yet, but here's a hint:

This is a 2-stage SE amp with a 6J9P (6688/E180F) driving an EL-34.
Note the extremely low THD. This absolutely beats the pants off of a 300B in terms of efficiency and THD. How I accomplish this is the secret we're not ready to divulge. Bonus: The 2 tubes and output transformer cost a total of $28, about the price of one fancy coupling capacitor.

350V plate and screen
65ma bias (22.75W total diss)
3600 Ohm load
1W: 0.36%
5W: 1.2%
7W: 1.8%
10W: 3%
13W: 5%
Damping factor: 7

I've already filled 2 notebooks over the last months with tests and there's more to be done before it's published.
 
MLee said:
I'm interested in upgrading my front 3 speakers to Econowaves for HT use. The center speaker would have to go below the TV. How well would an Econowave laid on its side work as a center channel? Would this compromise the sound dispersion pattern or anything like that?

With all the Econowave variants out there and 700+ pages of information I'm also bit confused on which version to build. Which one is the best sounding Econowave to date? Are there any plans to build one using a 15" or 18" woofer for even more bass impact?
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Welcome aboard! The eWave is more of a design concept than a fixed design. So the answer to most questions begins with "it depends".

A couple of quick answers for your questions....

Center channel dispersion pattern - it depends on the wave guide. Most are rectangular and have a rectangular pattern (say 90 x 40 deg) or you can go with a square one (90 x 90) or round one (75 deg conical). And then there are the square waveguides with rectangular patterns....

Best sounding - it really depends on your budget (just like everything else).

Check the PE Tech Talk "Flex Your PCD Mettle" thread for some well documented complete designs

18 inch designs? - nope.

15 inch designs? - yes, but they are generally less ideal than one built around a 10 or 12 (add sub as needed). Search the thread for 15" driver model numbers (eg 2235, 2226, 3015) to see if your particular choice has been used. You will also run across discussions of why using a 15" driver is a challenge and usually less than ideal.

Hope this helps a little. Unfortunately lots of searching and reading is the best way to figure out what works and why.
 
MLee said:
With all the Econowave variants out there and 700+ pages of information I'm also bit confused on which version to build. Which one is the best sounding Econowave to date? Are there any plans to build one using a 15" or 18" woofer for even more bass impact?
Click to expand...

I built my 1st Ewaves with 15" pro mid-woofers tuned to 30Hz,
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?p=3466919#post3466919 the midrange directivity isn't quite as good as a 12" would be but they have some bottom with EQ assist.. I use them mostly as PA/DJ speakers. It keeps me from dragging subs with me. But for a fixed install such as a HT, you can't beat the multiple sub approach. at home I still use the subs with the 15" ewaves.

A stretched white sheet can make a nice acousticly transparent screen to put the center where it belongs...behind the screen at same height as L & R speaks.
 
Advent Legacy

I don't think this variant has been posted. If I missed it I am sorry. This started as a hacked pair of Legacies with bad foam. The original tweeters had blown and the previous owner grafted in some piezo horns. They do sound nice and I am grateful for all the development work that went into this project. Thank you all.
 

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Tooker said:
I don't think this variant has been posted. If I missed it I am sorry. This started as a hacked pair of Legacies with bad foam. The original tweeters had blown and the previous owner grafted in some piezo horns. They do sound nice and I am grateful for all the development work that went into this project. Thank you all.
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Nice! I did use that woofer (from a pair of Maestros that got dumpsterized) a while back due to the foam rotting, both on the woofers and the front of the cabinet.

I'm about to put them back in my test boxes that were built with the volume of the Maestros, which I think is a little larger than your Legacies. (I gave up on the D-131's when one went open due to corrosion of the (apparently) aluminum wire under the glue on the face of the cone. I can still get continuity but can't get anything to stick to the little stub of wire that's left... Ideas appreciated, recones are NOT in the works for these.)

Here's the pic: http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=178373&d=1257654308

Yours look MUCH nicer!
 
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