Model 19 Build Questions

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sgerus

New Member
Hello, this is my first post on this forum

I’m almost done building a pair of Model 19 cabinets and have a few questions

1. Regarding the cabinets, I’m thinking of using 3 ½ fiberglass on one side, top and back. Is that the proper method and is the material thickness OK?

2. Regarding the Crossovers, I’m thinking of building the “Z19” from this forum. Has anyone built them WITHOUT the L-Pads, and if so what values of resistors did you use in place of the L-Pads?

3. It’s a little late to ask this now, but my “Man Cave” is only 12’ by 13’. So the speakers will be about 9’ apart and I will be sitting about 10’ from them. Is the Model 19 a good choice for this small of room?

Thanks, Scott
 
Responding to your second question, I wouldn't omit the L pads, since the way they work in the Z19 seems to offer a wide range of possible curves on the horns; there are so many options with them in, and they interact with each other for infinite (?) possibilities. I doubt anyone can tell you what the exactly "right" setting is. And what's good in one room might be different in another. What if you put them in a different room someday?

But if you really want to omit them, you might wire them in temporarily, mess around until you have them exactly as you like them, then measure the resistance and get resistors to suit.
 
Last edited:
sgerus said:
Is the Model 19 a good choice for this small of room?L

Thanks, Scott
Click to expand...

IME&O yes, an excellent choice.

I'm not familiar with this crossover you intend to build but with the stock ones the L pads are ESSENTIAL for the speakers to work as intended, the intention being to allow the user great flexibility in room matching thus there is no single correct setting.
 
I'm probably in the minority on this but I would build the Altec xover with modern parts. I have originals, Z19's and Jeff Markwart-esque versions and have listened to all three at length and I think that if you have Altec components and a close to spec model 19 cabinet, the Altec xovers are better sounding, once the caps are up graded. I also built a set of Altec xovers with foil type inductors and oil caps which sounded very good. Measure what you like and talk about the antiquated arrangement in the 19's but the original keeps ending up in use in mine. I think Jeff Markwart's version of the 604 xover is better than Altec's version though.
 
While I have not used the Z19 x overs I agree with Zonker and would keep the L pads at least to start. After you have them set where you want them you could measure and replace with resistors if you want.

As to room size you should be fine. I picked up a pair of Vals last winter and l was also concerned about my 11'x20' low ceiling room. They are only about 6'-7' apart center to center and I sit about 9' from them I think. Works very well but I do think they could really shine in a bigger area.
 
You might look at using an attenuator switch, say a 3 way type in place of an L-Pad. I have built many of the Z19 xovers- all with L-Pads. The horns in them really needs taming depending on the room & sourc material used. Putting in a single fix attenuator would probably invite regret!

You question about insulation sounds reasonable to the amount you suggested.

Enjoy your 19's- they are a wonderful audio reproduction platform.
DC
 
First of all, Thanks everyone for the quick replies
I’m ordering the parts for the crossovers today… including the 100W L-Pads
Solens for the woofer, Jentzen Cross Caps for the 804 Driver, using the proper combination of capacitors to get 8uf, 16uf and 21uf.
I have decided to use with the Z19… Mainly because if I ever want to Bi-Amp the speaker I can.
Building the low and high section separately so I can get the 2.7mH inductor FAR away from the others.
Will post some pictures when I get the X-overs built
BTW…. Building these cabinets is a lot of work…. Almost 3 4x8 sheets of plywood, About 25 hours for both….without veneering!
 
If you're using 804's you will probably want the L pads anyway. They are a bit less sensitive than the 802's that came in model 19's so it will be nice to have some control.
 
804s are 16 ohm drivers. If this Z-19 crossover is designed around an 8 ohm driver, which I assume it is, it probably won't work as intended with an 804.
 
You're right as always Tom. I was thinking that there was an 8ohm version but that's not the case. They are almost 3dB less sensitive though.
 
Here’s an update on my Model19 Build:
I decided to keep the X-overs internal, with L-Pads, and built the High and Low on separate boards, using Point to Point wiring. The Low pass x-over is mounted on the back; the High pass x-over is mounted on top of the lower unit, located close to the L-Pad face plate.
 

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very nice.

Have you considered using 511 horns in place of the 811's?

I have placed mine on top of my cabinets and they do so better than the 811's.

Since your build is from scratch you have room for them and would only need to make an opening for the horn driver in back, which could be done and not noticible.
 
bdblkta said:
very nice.

Have you considered using 511 horns in place of the 811's?

I have placed mine on top of my cabinets and they do so better than the 811's.

Since your build is from scratch you have room for them and would only need to make an opening for the horn driver in back, which could be done and not noticible.
Click to expand...

That might mess up the tuning, having an extra vent.
 
No, I did not think of using the 511 horn. Before I decided on building Mod19's I was going to do a tall version that would have been 20" wide and fit in the living room. Hence the 811 horns.

Someday I might build a wood horn that would be meant to be displayed on top of the bass unit.

The down side of doing that is I would reduce the overall volume… But now you have me thinking.

I tested the new crossovers by hooking them up to my “test mule” which is just a little smaller than the Mod19 lower. I noticed a big improvement in the sound just from the crossovers.

So just for the fun of it, I’m going to temporary cap off the bass unit of the 2nd speaker and compare it to the stock Model19 to see if I can actually here a difference due to the internal volume change.
 
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