comparison of ar-2ax with ar-3a

madwing

madwing

AK Subscriber
Subscriber
hoookay.

i have pulled the trigger on a pair of ar-2ax's that need woofer refoaming, but come with fine-condition microtweeter arrays, for the nice sum of $55 :thmbsp:

there are also a pair of refoamed ar-3a's at a local stereo shop being sold for $100, which i have dibs on with the owner.

i am currently trying to finish off refurbing a set of ar-4x's, which i will keep for another application once i get the 2ax's refurbed.

i think the 2ax is set up suchly:
- 0.75" pressed paper dome tweeter, 3.5" cone mid, 10" foam surround woofer

and the 3a is supposedly set up like this:
- 0.75" pressed paper dome tweeter, 3.5" dome mid, 11" foam surround woofer

(please correct the above if i am wrong!)

given the 3a is regarded by many as the sine qua non of speakers, how will the 2ax (both being in "perfect" working condition) compare for sound? i cannot have both in the house at the same time *before* i make a purchase decision, so i can't A/B them... any comments or a rowdy discussion on the merits of the 2ax vs. 3a sound are welcomed, nay, encouraged.:D

dankie,
madwing
 
Register to hide this ad
Others are more expert than I, but I thought that the 3a and the 2ax had the same tweeter and mids, and that the primary difference was the size of the woofer and of the cabinet. Thus the 3a will have deeper bass response. I use the 3a as my primary speaker, and can attest to the bass response.
 
thanks, spartanmanor. no, i hadn't seen it, or hadn't remembered where it was if i had.

so, it's actually

2ax - 0.75" pressed paper dome tweeter, 3.5" cone mid, 10" foam surround woofer

3a - 0.75" pressed paper dome tweeter, 1.5" dome mid, 12" foam surround woofer

and the price...$128 for the 2ax, $250 for the 3a...wow. is the 3a *that* much better sounding?
 
Your question is a good one. I would be interested in how different these two sound as well. If you can get a pair of AR3a's for $100 I would jump on that.
 
Considering the 3a's go for $300-$700 and more on eBay pretty regularly and the 2ax's for well under $100 on the bay they may be a bargain in comparison.
 
well, i am actually interested in the tweeter array, as well. if i decide to go with the 3a, ultimately, i'll keep it when i sell the 2ax's...though if i can figure out how to let my son use the 2ax's in his room (meaning "get my wife's permiss...er...blessing"), they'll stay with us.

i'll be passing by the shop to put a deposit on the 3a's this weekend...
 
pbda said:
Others are more expert than I, but I thought that the 3a and the 2ax had the same tweeter and mids, and that the primary difference was the size of the woofer and of the cabinet. Thus the 3a will have deeper bass response. I use the 3a as my primary speaker, and can attest to the bass response.
Click to expand...

Just FYI, you are thinking of the AR-5
 
Having never heard a pair 3a's, I can't speak to that... But I live with a pair of 3's every day, and I've been around 2 different pairs of 2ax's for extended periods of time. The 3's are better than 2ax's, but they by no means mop the floor with them. Ozmoid's resurrected 2ax's are distinct (even bright) for a pair of AR's, with a very nice sound stage, and an impressive amount of bass for a 10" woofer. Where my 3's really get on top of his 2ax's is the last octave or so of bass.
 
On the later 2ax, the 3a is going to have a more forward midrange and deeper bass. On an earlier 2ax (phenolic resin 1.25" tweeter) I'd call the mids/highs a wash and still give the nod on the bass to the 3a. (30hz VS. 20hz, more or less.)

Many find the 2ax more "balanced", feeling that the 3a is bass heavy. Personally, I'd like to live with some 3a's for a while so I could make an informed judgment.

I would buy the 2ax with the array first - the array is kind of rare, it should bring a nice price on its own if you decide to put it on the open market instead of giving it to me for Christmas :D. IF the guy will hold the 3a's for you at $55, that is. 3a's regularly close for upwards of $300 a pair, and not all of those in even decent condition.

The 3a + the tweet array might just be an awesome setup. :drool: :music:

spartanmanor said:
Considering the 3a's go for $300-$700 and more on eBay pretty regularly and the 2ax's for well under $100 on the bay they may be a bargain in comparison.
Click to expand...
The 2ax have been going up a bit on the 'bay, recently. A pair of nice condition should hit about $100+.
 
madwing said:
let my son use the 2ax's in his room
Click to expand...
FYI, my 4-year-old is running 4x's in her room. :D (negates the need for "storage".) Explain to your wife how nice it will be if your son can go to his room and listen to his own stereo - how ownership grows responsibility, and responsibility builds character... you get the idea. :smoke:
 
i'll pay $100 for the 3a's, still a killer deal.

and i was thinking, the array with the 3a's could be the ticket. got to get them all processed, though, first.

thanks for the tips on how to "frame" the speakers, too....the "i want to try them to find the best for the least" also is working, too. :D
 
I believe there are no common drivers between the 2xa and the 3a.

While both have a 3/4 inch dome tweeter, the 2xa has an 8 ohm version while the 3a has a 4 ohm version.

Woofers are totally different.

2xa has a 3 1/2 inch cone mid driver, while the 3a has a 1 1/2 dome mid driver. The 3a's mid driver was built by AR and is know for its clear/clean mid frequencies.

Regards,
Jerry
 
onplane said:
I believe there are no common drivers between the 2xa and the 3a.

While both have a 3/4 inch dome tweeter, the 2xa has an 8 ohm version while the 3a has a 4 ohm version.

Woofers are totally different.

2xa has a 3 1/2 inch cone mid driver, while the 3a has a 1 1/2 dome mid driver. The 3a's mid driver was built by AR and is know for its clear/clean mid frequencies.

Regards,
Jerry
Click to expand...
So the next question is: Are the earlier resin tweeters different ohm ratings in the 3 and 2ax?

IIRC, The 2ax followed the 3, then had a revision about the time the 3a was released. The revision changed the tweeter to match the style of driver in the "new" 3a. I was unaware of the ohm difference in the tweeters, I have always understood they are interchangeable.
 
ozmoid said:
So the next question is: Are the earlier resin tweeters different ohm ratings in the 3 and 2ax?

IIRC, The 2ax followed the 3, then had a revision about the time the 3a was released. The revision changed the tweeter to match the style of driver in the "new" 3a. I was unaware of the ohm difference in the tweeters, I have always understood they are interchangeable.
Click to expand...


ozmoid, this would be a good question for Carl.

Rarely do you mix drivers of different impedance. The 3 and the 3a have always been 4 ohn systems.

The AR-2 series was always an 8 ohm system.

If you substitute the 4 ohm tweeter into the AR-2ax, you'd need a resistor to pad; otherwise the tweeter will overpower the other drivers.

If you put an 8 ohm tweeter in the 3a, there is no way you can bring the tweeter in balance with the other drivers. An 8 ohm tweeter will lag way behind in volume.

Regards,
Jerry
 
onplane said:
ozmoid, this would be a good question for Carl.

Rarely do you mix drivers of different impedance. The 3 and the 3a have always been 4 ohn systems.

The AR-2 series was always an 8 ohm system.

If you substitute the 4 ohm tweeter into the AR-2ax, you'd need a resistor to pad; otherwise the tweeter will overpower the other drivers.

If you put an 8 ohm tweeter in the 3a, there is no way you can bring the tweeter in balance with the other drivers. An 8 ohm tweeter will lag way behind in volume.

Regards,
Jerry
Click to expand...
The Ohm rating of the speaker is not a reflection of the ohm rating of the individual drivers - usually the woofer will dominate, and the crossover will level out the rest to present a final rating at the binding posts. Have you actually measured the individual drivers, cut loose from the crossover network?

I had an AR 2 mid and a later 3/4" AR 2ax tweeter in the workshop, so I just went and checked those, both from 8 ohm speakers. The mid measures 4 ohms, the tweeter measures 12 ohms.

To see how the crossover affects it, I clipped the mid to an AR pot. The midrange attached to just an AR pot reads 6.6 ohms across the pot.

Next time I have one opened up and all the wires cut, I'll do a reading on all the drivers.
 
ozmoid said:
Have you actually measured the individual drivers, cut loose from the crossover network?

I had an AR 2 mid and a later 3/4" AR 2ax tweeter in the workshop, so I just went and checked those, both from 8 ohm speakers. The mid measures 4 ohms, the tweeter measures 12 ohms.

To see how the crossover affects it, I clipped the mid to an AR pot. The midrange attached to just an AR pot reads 6.6 ohms across the pot.

Next time I have one opened up and all the wires cut, I'll do a reading on all the drivers.
Click to expand...


Yes, I can measure the tweeter in my 3a's anytime, since the pots have been removed from the circuit. The DCR of my 3a tweeter is 2.8 ohms.

I can't do the same on the mid-driver since a coil is in parallel.

ozmoid, your measurement of the mid driver makes no sense. When you wire the 16 ohm pot across the mid driver and then measure the NET resistance, the NET amount must be lower than the driver by itself.

I suspect, your mid driver is closer to 8 ohms. Then the NET measurement of 6.6 ohms would be well ... in the right ball park.

Regards,
Jerry
 
onplane said:
ozmoid, your measurement of the mid driver makes no sense. When you wire the 16 ohm pot across the mid driver and then measure the NET resistance, the NET amount must be lower than the driver by itself.
Click to expand...
Jerry, I am still learning, always trying to understand more about how all this works, and what I can do to repair/restore stuff I find, and I am NO authority on anything audio - That said, across terminals 1 and 3 with the mid attached: full increase=22 ohms, full decrease=9 ohms. The speaker is attached to terminals 1 and 2, just as installed.

I'm not sure what you mean by NET resistance, but I am reading the resistance from the terminals that lead to the binding posts, as this is contributing to what the amp "sees" as the rating.

(For the record, the 6.6 reading was with an L-pad, not an AR pot. I just grabbed a pot out of the parts box. For the reading above, it is a confirmed original AR pot. The AR pot "sans" speaker attached reads 15.7 ohms through the coil.)
 
ozmoid, your readings just confirm exactly what I have been saying about those blasted 40 year pots.

When you take a 4 ohm speaker and put it in parallel with a 16 ohm resistor (max increase) the NET resistance you SHOULD read is approx. 3.2 ohms.

When you measure 9 ohms, it's because the pot wiper is ADDING resistance that should NOT be there. Net impact of that resistance is a "dull" speaker system.

Now, solder the speakers to terminals 1 and 3 and measure the NET resistance across 1 and 3. This is the NET resistance you are supposed to get.

Regards,
Jerry
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom