Good luck or good management?

catman

catman

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G'day day, I'm presently listening to a vinyl album of Beethoven piano sonatas with two complete sonatas per side, and they fit neatly on each side.

I wonder if in the days when LP record standards were being developed, that music 'duration' was a factor?

I know that I often consider record playing time per side on a 33 1/3 rpm 12 inch record too short, but I guess for the majority of music material it works out well. Something to think about. :scratch2: Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
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Music duration was a factor because I've read some interviews(s) regarding that. Black Sabbath wrote Paranoid because the didn't have enough music for their album at one point. Radiohead has put out music designed in length for 10" lps, etc.
 
I recall reading about the development of the Victor (?) long-play record, was intended to fit relatively common classical performance length. At least I think I did.
 
Iirc, some blank cassette tapes and early versions of cdrs were designed to accommate LP music length. Of course that's going backwards from your question...
 
Felix,
I'm unaware of any consideration of length when Columbia developed the LP. I think the length may be more influenced by technical considerations.

This is an interesting question, though. I wonder if there was a length consideration, if it was driven more by classical or popular music. I think LP's were considered a replacement of the 78 album, which contained several (4 or 5) records. That's 8 or 10 songs. In the early days, when RCA decided to sell LP's as well as the 45's they developed, they didn't have enough new material available to release and actually released transcribed 78's.

When CD's were being developed, playing time was a big consideration. Legend has it that the length specification was determined by being able to fit the entire Beethoven's 9th Symphony on one CD.
 
The length of the recording on a 12" LP is variable. The recording lathe can be set to different groove pitches, and is generally automatically controlled by the "preview" head on the tape playback deck, giving wider groove spacing for very loud sections, or sections with very heavy bass. Therefore classic selections with many soft passages allow more music to be cut on a side, as compared to Heavy Metal for instance, which is maximum modulation all the time.
 
Good question Felix.

There must have been considerations like this at every stage of format change. I remember reading about CD's and a piece of classical music.

Being a busy person, I have to time manage my LP playing. For eample, if it's 6:30pm and we are aiming for a 7pm sit down with dinner, I'll put on Dylan's "Nashville Skyline". It fills up 30-32 minutes nicely.

Love from the South.

Lee
 
. I think LP's were considered a replacement of the 78 album, which contained several (4 or 5) records. That's 8 or 10 songs.


Yep, and came in what looked like a photo album. My theory, and I am sticking to it, is the reason we to this day often refer to L.P.'s as "record albums".
 
Sometimes it is bad luck or poor management. When I am listening to the Allman bros. Eat a peach lp, I hate that I have to flip the album in the middle of Mountain Jam.
 
I have a record that has 12 minutes of music on one side and 20 minutes on the other, yet both fit the record with the same amount of space at the end.
 
G'day all, interesting stuff. :yes: Yes I guess the cutting lathe and track 'loudness' (not the 'loudness war' type of thing though), will greatly affect this kind of thing.

My Jimi Hendrix 'Valley of Neptune' is 'cut' quite loud and the running time per side is relatively short. Regards, Felix aka catman.
 
I have two country compilation LPs that have 25 songs on each of them.:eek: Some of the songs are kinda short, but that's still a lot. I don't know the exact playing length but they seem to play a good bit longer than most of the records I have heard.
 
As was stated earlier, playing time is influenced by the material being recorded. If you search about for companies that offer mastering and pressing of vinyl, you will find that most set a limit of 23-25 minutes per side. This represents the limit of the room available on the disk. Another interesting read is about 'groove echo'.

One of the fascinating aspects of music recording, is the sequencing of tracks on an lp. A dance that artists, engineers, and record companies had to do.

The artist might want a certain track order, but this might not be technically possible, because of limits on recording time.

Also, tracks with heavy complex dynamics were to be avoided as last tracks on a side, because the closer to the lead out groove, the lower the effective speed of the cutter head on the vinyl or laquer, reducing it's capability to accurately record the information.

The record company would often want to be sure that the most promotable track always appear as track one, side one. The artist might feel otherwise, etc.

Sometimes, cassette versions of lp's had a slightly different track order, so as not to have the sides be of (too largely) unequal playing times. If side 2 of an lp was 23 minutes, and side 1 was 19 minutes, the listener of the cassette would have to listen to 4 minutes of silence, before flipping it over.

Going back to 8 tracks-they had the sequence all over the place, as there 4 'sides' to deal with.

Interesting now, with the fact that CD's are the predominant physical recording medium, with their 80 minute capacity, artists and record companies became free to go beyond the 45-50 minute limit that lp's imposed. The result is that vinyl versions of many newer recordings, are forced to be 2 vinyl disk sets, in order to include all tracks.
 
beat_truck said:
I have two country compilation LPs that have 25 songs on each of them.:eek: Some of the songs are kinda short, but that's still a lot. I don't know the exact playing length but they seem to play a good bit longer than most of the records I have heard.
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I bet you would find that the recording level of these to be noticeably lower than the versions found on their original associated lp's. This will allow for more playing time.

I had one of those K-Tel kind of collections. The level was lower, and the tracks were often edited, to cut out bridges, refrains, etc. Also, fade outs were unnaturally rushed, saving precious seconds.

But the marketing guys could proclaim "25 No. 1 Hits for only $6.95!!!"
 
Phototone said:
The length of the recording on a 12" LP is variable. The recording lathe can be set to different groove pitches, and is generally automatically controlled by the "preview" head on the tape playback deck, giving wider groove spacing for very loud sections, or sections with very heavy bass. Therefore classic selections with many soft passages allow more music to be cut on a side, as compared to Heavy Metal for instance, which is maximum modulation all the time.
Click to expand...

Exactly what Phototone has said.

There is a tradeoff between cutting level and side length.
 
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