Idler wheel grinding

Crnelsen1

Crnelsen1

Active Member
Recently refurbished an old zenith turntable. There is a grinding noise when turning. all parts have been cleaned and re lubed. The idler wheel seems to have a tough time to get going I've checked the schematics thinking there is a spring to help pull the idler to the spindle but there isn't is appears to use the turnable itself to make the gap to push the wheel to the spindle. It's almost like a metal on metal grinding noise. As it speeds up the noise diminishes. Any thoughts?


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I'd start turning parts manually to isolate where the noise is coming from. I wonder if you have a bearing that's shot?
 
I'm thinking the platter is grinding the sides of the lip where it sits. Perhaps I should check the alignment of the spindle?


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Is there a thrust washer missing from the bearing assembly? Not sure what turntable you've got there exactly but most changers have a flat hardened steel washer above and below the ball bearing assembly. Some also have a rubber O ring under the lower washer. If any of those parts are missing, or if the O ring has turned to crumbs, it'll mess with the platter height.
 
O ring is toast both washers are in place. Almost feels like it not centered correctly


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I see a lot responses dealing with the idler wheel bearings. Where exactly are the idler wheel bearings typically? Should I be looking for ball bearings like in the spindle assembly? The record player is a zenith z565w part of a console set can't seem to find a lot of info about it I got a similiar schematic of a zenith cobra which I have been going off of seems to match pretty close


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If you want to engage people who are mechanically inclined but not familiar with your table, posting some photos would help. The idler is typically a rubber disc with a metal center.

In general, watching what happens while activating things over and over can reveal issues. Sometimes it needs to be out of its shell to see underneath, the gynecological viewpoint.

Moving things manually and feeling for tight spots can help find places where lube has failed or springs are missing or there is a part that is just plain stuck.

Almost everything that goes wrong with a simple machine can be observed and sussed.
 
Thanks cdk99 I've narrowed it down to a plasticized idler wheel. the noise is not being dampened by new rubber against the idler "shaft" it's transferring through out the metal chassis. Plastic on metal


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Should there be a fiber washer under there? I've not had any plastic idler wheels, all mine were metal with the rubber bonded to that. The metal ones at least have a bronze bushing in the center as the bearing, and a fiber washer top and bottom to retain a bit of oil and keep the bronze from rubbing against the metal bit that the post comes out of.
 
Yeah there are 2 fiber washers I believe there is a bronze bushing in middle. I'll try to attach closest pic I can find
fea5ad6558ca03f4905423878c14ca67.jpg
. It's a zenith z565w it was my grandmothers I always loved it growing up thought it was an unusual console I'm trying to restore it so far I've meticulously cleaned every nook lubricated all parts I should.
re lubed and cleaned the pots. New lamps and new caps. Just can't figure out the record player!

Here is a pic of a restored one
94bfcec24bcf612dea35521cd0518072.jpg
0b641f4fc8dbf95299c2783e03ab3b9c.jpg



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Cool looking, I remember those. Did I just admit something?

So if you run just the motor no noise?

And if you run it motor against idler there is noise?

If you spin the platter by itself, no noise?

If you haven't already, try to get that idler wheel off and if the rubber isn't pliable wash with some dish soap, then rinse. The center of it, as said above is often a plain bearing and might benefit from lube.

The motor might run quiet on its own but get noisy when the idler is against it harder, the internal bushings can wear ovoid. Sometimes switching bottom and top is enough. Brake parts cleaner is great for clearing out bronze bushings and felt pads, put on newspaper over cardboard and the goop will soak out. I wouldn't spray it on the motor itself, only if the parts are separated.

There's always a chance something has worn out from not being lubed for many years, or from corrosion forming while it sat. Just a matter of tracking it down relentlessly.
 
Your changer is. VM product, check out the Voice of Music website. They sell parts. The vM model number for your changer should be underneath. Starts with the code for VM, 857, then a date code and the VM model number, probably 1200 something. A diagram in the service manual will
show you if any parts are missing like the spindle bearing washers. My experience with VM is that ALL of the old hardened grease needs cleaning out, requiring some dissassembly. If you look on youtube you can find info in servicing VM record changers.
 
Thanks for the info sorry another question is the motor shaft assembly that pushes the idler wheel supposed to have some give to it? Or is it stationary? Mine kinda leans down at an angle towards the idler wheel and the whole motor unit can be pushed up and down


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That sounds like the motor is mounted using rubber bushings and they are whupped.
I think I would contact Gary at VOM, as Olorin67 has mentioned, (armed with the model number), and have a conversation.
 
An other thing: these bronze (sintered bearings) purport to be permanently lubricated. In my experience they become permanently unlubricated after a period of time. They are made by molding a compound of bronze powder and some kind of lubrication powder. That is shaped, compressed and baked (sintered) at a high temperature. Do you know any lubricant that can withstand temperatures to solidify powdered bronze? Well, I don't.

I use a high quality lubricant like sewing machine oil, just a tiny bit, and it lasts maybe 6 months to a year. So I would carefully check the fit of your bearings. Your fingers can be sensitive enough tio feel any looseness or slight drag. Or maybe not, but mine can.
 
Turns out it was the motor mounts they were shot and forcing the motor shaft at an angle thanks so much to Gary for his knowledge and having the voice of music website for the old players was able to get new motor mounts a new needle and an o ring


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