QRX-888: does it exist?

Sansuiman

Sansuiman

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Has anyone here ever actually seen a QRX-888 receiver? This would be the black front panel version of a QRX-8001. We know there was a QRX-777 and 999 of course, but in 27 years of my Sansui obsession, I have never once seen a QRX-888 nor any evidence such a model was even made. I don't think it actually exists. But, I was pondering that question while considering other ultra-rarities, and figured I'd post it here for discussion.
 
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I think if someone had a Sansui catalog or some type of publication that listed the QRX-999 and QRX-777 but no QRX-888, that would be pretty strong evidence there was no QRX-888.

I didn't know this was true until I started digging, but the QRX-8001 is far less common than the 9001, and I think the least common of all the QRX units. One thing I've been looking at over the past year is QRX units that come up for sale on e-bay. QRX-8001 units rarely show up, whereas there are a lot of x500 units, quite a few 7001 and 6001 units, about the same number of 9001 and 5001 units, and a few x000 units. But the 8001 is least seen of all. I have no idea why that is other than Sansui made far less of them. According to Classic Audio.com, the list price for a 9001 was $1,150, while an 8001 was $990. Maybe people concluded that it was worth the extra $160 to get the 9001, so the 8001 was not very popular? Maybe the low numbers of the 8001 meant that Sansui didn't bother making a QRX-888 given the low sales of the 8001?
 
I would pretty much concur with theory postulated by @KeithD, as the 8001 is so seldom seen. The one thing I can't square with that though is that I'd figure if there was any intention to make an 888, the decision would've been made well in advance of any sales numbers being available.

It is evident by the serial numbers that the QRX-999's were made within the same production runs as the 9001. Apparently, there were a certain number of units built that were pre-planned to receive the 999 "dress" and a specific number of unique 999 parts sets would've been produced in advance so they were available for normal production flow. Since the 999's weren't built as special, separate production runs (so far as we can tell) then presumably an 888, if planned for, would've been handled the same way.

Or to put it differently, the specific panels, knobs/button caps and ID plates for an 888 would have been sourced and ready to go prior to the start of production, before the company knew the 8001 would have very limited sales. Since front panels would have to be anodized black rather than natural, and unique screen print provisions for the parts bearing the model number (front panel, tuner scale plexiglass inlay, and the model ID plate) which was most likely done by an outside supplier, they'd probably have made a run of those parts and had them ready for use at the assembly line when production commenced. The knobs and button caps already existed in their black version from existing use on the 999, 990(DB) 890(DB) 790 and 690.

Much like building a car with a choice of different interior colors, the seats, door cards, dash pad, steering wheels, carpet and seat belts (plus all the incidental little plastic trim pieces needed) would have to be already made and available in the range of available colors for assembly into vehicles well ahead of the point where the manufacturer might find out a certain color isn't popular and sells poorly. Sure, they have market research studies and such to predict what will be popular but that only gets them so far. All of which is a lot of effort to reiterate that I don't think any QRX-888 was ever made, nor was such a model planned for to begin with.

OTOH, if an 888 ever did exist anywhere, I'd figure someone here is likely to have seen it and have some recollection of it.
 
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Good points @Sansuiman , just took a look at the serial number database myself. Looks like the earliest 9001 is October 1976, while the earliest QRX-999 is December 1976, so only a two month difference. However, the difference is much greater for the QRX-7001 with an earliest date of March 1974, and QRX-777 with the earliest date being August 1975. So, a year and 5 months difference there. In both cases, though the "silver face" version came first in production. We see the same pattern with the 9090/890 and 9090DB/890DB.

What was the purpose/intent of the "black face" receivers? Far fewer of those in the database. I've read posts saying these were European models, but other posts say they were not.
 
The European version thing is a persistent myth, at least regarding the Sansui black dress versions. To my knowledge, every single black panel alternate model had the universally convertible input voltage (100/120/220/240) setup, essentially making them general export versions. Have not seen any that were made as 220 or 240V only (or switchable 220/240 volt) as was required by various EU and UK safety regulatory agencies.

It has been posted here by @LBPete (I believe) in the past that the black versions were listed in distributor catalogs alongside the silver version, making them available essentially anywhere.

That said, silver was clearly more popular in the US market at the time, and black was probably more popular in some European markets, this is probably what drove the notion that the black versions were for the European market. It also looks like Pioneer may have had their black versions specifically commissioned by a European distributor, furthering the idea that black=European market versions.
 
@KeithD, interesting notes on the serial number spreads earlier. We do have to account for the possibility that incomplete data is revealing a larger gap than actually exists for some of those models. Especially since there are many fewer black versions to begin with, so less chance of their serial numbers being recorded in quantity.

@ignoramustot, I tend to obsess over these minute details, for whatever reason. Mostly out of desire to expand my knowledge on the subject. Glad to see I'm not the only one who has such an interest.
 
@Sansuiman I'm just one of many who enjoy and rely on your audio-archeology :bowdown:

And my interest is always piqued by mentions of black-fronted Sansui receivers because I find them more attractive than their silver-faced brethren. Dare I say it, but to my eyes, most Sansui receivers after the mid-70s are about aesthetically (un)appealing as a 1976 Pontiac Grand Safari wagon with woodgrain sides ... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Grand_Safari
My apologies to the Ponty fans out there...
 
@ignoramustot, On balance, I find the silver aesthetic preferable. But cannot disagree that the 990DB, QRX-999 and other models offered in black versions are quite striking. I'm happy to own a couple. Obviously that opinion is shared by many given how sought out they are. I observe the same with the Pioneer models that were similarly offered.

Every once in great while I've seen allusions to the existence of a black version of the 8001 (which would be the 888, according to the known model numbering convention at the time) but have never been able to positively establish it's existence. I guess in posting this thread I was secretly hoping someone would have proof of Sansui actually making some, but so far nothing has been turned up.

Going off topic a bit here, those 76 Ponty wagons were not...sexy. The clamshell tailgate was an engineeering and maintenance nighmare, from what I understand. What's funny is that I was born in 74, but as a young kid can't hardly recall ever seeing those around. I am left to the conclusion they had a fairly short service life, and were moslty off the road by the early 80's. Or maybe they just weren't too popular to begin with.

I have many memories of the follow up GM wagon design with the rounded off more conventional top hinged tailgate (badged by Chevy as the Malibu Classic). We had 2 of those in succession - bought used - when I was a kid, followed on by a 1983 Caprice wagon purchased new (that was the squared off body). None were what I'd call great cars, but neither were they as awkward amd clunky looking as that 76 Grand Safari. At least to my eye. Can't say I have much nostalgia or fondness for the station wagon era in general. They were strictly utilitarian transportation.
 
Sansuiman said:
@KeithD, interesting notes on the serial number spreads earlier. We do have to account for the possibility that incomplete data is revealing a larger gap than actually exists for some of those models. Especially since there are many fewer black versions to begin with, so less chance of their serial numbers being recorded in quantity.
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That's true, but the year and 5 month gap between the first 7001 and QRX-777 is much larger than all the rest, which show about a two month lag. I think we'd have to dig deeper into when the first black face receiver of any kind was introduced by Sansui. SS receivers seem to be all silver faced up until the mid-70s. Maybe the QRX-777 was the first black face Sansui receiver? It also seemed to be offered only for "top end" receivers, which supports your thought that the black face was offered in response to consumer interest. Having both silver and black face versions of receivers seems to have died out with the G series, but I have not taken a detailed look at that.

Interesting stuff. I too prefer the silver face, but do like the contrast of a black dial on Sansui receivers (as opposed to the all silver face of Pioneer's SX-x50 line.) It did take me a while to warm up to the all black design of Sansui integrated amps, but I quite like them now, especially those with complementary silver knobs!
 
The 777 may well have been a late arrival, just why that is we'll probably never know. It also isn't truly a black panel, but rather half black (painted rather than anodized), with the lower half remaining natural aluminum. So it is an unusual styling exercise to start. The 771/881 alternate versions (7010/8010) were done in the same fashion, black upper half and natural lower half.

Then there was the curios case of the G-901 which instead of being a black version, received an alternate finish that I've seen described as."bronze" or "champaign", with white screen printed legends rather than black, for better contrast. Then the subsequent G-7700/8700/9700 went back to black alternate versions with the G-771/871/971. These were also the last major receiver lineup so offered in alternate versions, but with different model numbers. Go figure.

Interestingly, after 1980, many components Sansui made were offered in both black and silver, while the model numbers remained the same in either case. For example the first lineup of Supercompo gear, which included the A-80, T-80, D-550M and SE-9 among others, were all sold in both finishes.

For those, silver is still much more commonly seen, having clearly outsold the black versions by a wide margin. Despite that, the alternate finish versions went from being something of a seldom seen afterthought to being a standard part of the product offering.
 
Given I was so rude and unappreciative in my reaction to the looks of most late '70s Sansui receivers (edit: I prefer the simpler looks and more modest proportions of the early-mid 70s models), I should mention that I had a look at the various quadraphonic receiver and amplifier models listed on Hifi Engine. I have to admit I quite like the looks of the QA series quad amplifiers, both the QA-5000 alloy face, and the QA-6000 and QA-7000 black fronted models.
e.g. https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/sansui/qa-7000.shtml

I've not seen them mentioned much. I gather they are rarer than the receivers? Perhaps the buyers interested in quad wanted all the bells and whistles in a receiver as well, or did the receivers leave the quad amps behind in the chaotic evolution of quad?
 
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The QA-5000 and 6000 models are ultra extreme rarities. I've seen maybe 3 or 4 of each for sale in 25 years. The QA-7000 is somewhat more common, but not all that much so.

Interestingly, the QA-7000 is styled more like an AU-9500, where the 5000 and 6000 more resemble the AU-4400 and AU-5900, respectively. The 7000 has an older decoder/synth circuit design than the other two models, which I gather were introduced a year or so later.
 
Sansuiman said:
The QA-5000 and 6000 models are ultra extreme rarities. I've seen maybe 3 or 4 of each for sale in 25 years. ... Interestingly, the QA-7000 is styled more like an AU-9500, where the 5000 and 6000 more resemble the AU-4400 and AU-5900, respectively. ...
Click to expand...

I have an AU-4900 and noticed the resemblance in the 5000 and 6000, so I guess that's why clean looks of those two quad amps appealed to me.

Even the extra meters on the QA-7000 are nicely arranged in the frontal layout.

And, yes, the QA-7000 does resemble an AU-9500 with a few more gizmos. It looks a stylishly serious bit of business to me...

Thanks again for the continuing education and apologies for dragging the thread off-topic again.
Rob
 
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Here are some stats from the database.

QRX-888 0 on file
QRX-8001 18 on file
QRX-999 16 on file
QRX-9001 112 on file
QRX-777 13 on file
QRX-7001 81 on file
QRX-666 0 on file
QRX-6001 20 on file

QA-5000 9 on file
QA-6000 6 on file

Sansuiman said:
The European version thing is a persistent myth, at least regarding the Sansui black dress versions. To my knowledge, every single black panel alternate model had the universally convertible input voltage (100/120/220/240) setup, essentially making them general export versions. Have not seen any that were made as 220 or 240V only (or switchable 220/240 volt) as was required by various EU and UK safety regulatory agencies.

It has been posted here by @LBPete (I believe) in the past that the black versions were listed in distributor catalogs alongside the silver version, making them available essentially anywhere.

That said, silver was clearly more popular in the US market at the time, and black was probably more popular in some European markets, this is probably what drove the notion that the black versions were for the European market. It also looks like Pioneer may have had their black versions specifically commissioned by a European distributor, furthering the idea that black=European market versions.
Click to expand...

The myth that the black trim versions were "European" models is a thorn in my side. It was our late friend Stene, the former Scandinavian Sansui Distributor, who mentioned that he always had access to both silver and black trim versions. All the black trim versions I've seen have been general export models with 4 voltage input settings.

As it turns out, Sansui did make region specific models during this period. Here's an image of a single voltage "North American" QRX-7001 recently posted by AK member @Monicker1 in the 2017 database thread. I've also seen other actual "European" models with only 220/240V mains and the appropriate power cord from this era but I've never seen one with black trim.

3772151-95355d97-sansui-qrx-7001-4-channel-receiver.jpg

I've been wanting to update my thread on the "European" myth with these newly found images but with the search function down, I can't find it.


- Pete
 
Keep in mind all units bound for sale in the US had to be 120V input only to get UL certification. The same requirement existed for Canada, in order to receive CSA approval. So, universal converible input voltage versions should not have been sold by US or Canadian distributors, unless there were some "grey market" items sneaked in.

I figure gear sold in military base exchanges within the US may have been universal voltage models, to accomodate the likelihood of personnel who bought them here being transferred out of the US. Again though, those versions should not have been found at regular retail.

I think we can safely say there was no QRX-666 or 555, just as I'm confident in saying there isn't a QRX-888. I'm surprised there are nearly as many QRX-999 as QRX-8001 in the database.
 
Sansuiman said:
Keep in mind all units bound for sale in the US had to be 120V input only to get UL certification. The same requirement existed for Canada, in order to receive CSA approval. So, universal converible input voltage versions should not have been sold by US or Canadian distributors, unless there were some "grey market" items sneaked in.

I figure gear sold in military base exchanges within the US may have been universal voltage models, to accomodate the likelihood of personnel who bought them here being transferred out of the US. Again though, those versions should not have been found at regular retail.

I think we can safely say there was no QRX-666 or 555, just as I'm confident in saying there isn't a QRX-888. I'm surprised there are nearly as many QRX-999 as QRX-8001 in the database.
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The UL requirement 117v may be true but you just don't see them in any quantity. It's hard to believe that the majority of units sold were gray market.

- Pete
 
I have a 9090DB that is 120 (117) only, not reconfigurable. Several other items, including a few CSA certified units as well. I think there was a LOT of gear sold to USMIL in exchanges even after the heydey the Japanese majors saw during Vietnam.

Further, I'm not sure what year the UL rule requiring a 120V primary only became effective. I'm thinking it was roughly around 76-78, so multi voltage gear prior to that may well have been legit to sell retail here. Or, Sansui just didn't care that it wasn't UL certified until the later 70's.

One can look at any Sansui service manual, and if multiple transformer part numbers are listed, then each will usually be denoted by the sales areas destination code, UL, CSA, UK, AUS, EU, XX, and so forth. This can be used to confirm market specific versions were specially made and shipped.
 
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I'll bet that 9090DB is a very late production model, probably 1978 or very late 1977. You just don't see single voltage NA models before that. It's probably the result of the UL standards changing. The proliferation of 220/240v European models occured around the same time when the EU countries required ground terminals on the plug.

- Pete
 
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