Upgrading a Rega P2 to ?

MichaelGJK

MichaelGJK

New Member
AK Newbie, here. I have been reading the TT posts off & on and this has started me thinking about upgrading my 2-channel system.

I've been rather disappointed with the sound of my vinyl, so I broke down and added an Oppo DVD player just so that the family could at least make use of the system rather than let it go completely stale - frankly, the Sonos in the kitchen gets way more use. The issue is that the sound is just not that involving and I'm trying to figure out why that is. I'm pretty sure I've set up the cart correctly, but there's still no toe-tapping or finger-snapping with this rig:

  • Rega P2 with factory installed Bias Cart
  • Myryad Cameo Integrated amp (with internal Phono)
  • Zu Audio Soul Superfly speakers
  • Kimber PBJ interconnects, and 4PR speaker cables
  • Monster HTS-5100 power distribution
  • Using Oppo DVD player as stand-in for now

I originally had Wharfedale Diamond 8 bookshelves but that was just too Brit-syrupy, so two years ago I bought my first mid-priced upgrade, the Souls, to try and liven things up a bit. Fantastic speakers on other gear/systems, but with this setup, it's ho-hum at best.

I've been looking at Project Xpression, Rega RP3 and VPI Traveler, and possibly something from Music Hall or Clearaudio, although they seem more expensive. Looking to spend $1500, but that would also have to include any other upgrades (cartridge, cables, amp), so I know that's limited. Would prefer to buy new, or at least no more than a couple of years old - I don't have the knowledge or skills to fix older gear.

My music preferences are a bit all over the place, but I like classical, classic rock, vocal, latin/dance, and occasionally jazz & blues.

Any help would be appreciated.
 
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It could be the turntable and/or cartridge aren't for you. A Dynavector 10x5 cartridge would be a noticeable upgrade from the Rega Bias. If that doesn't do it, I could see putting that 10x5 on a Traveler. Maybe the Rega strikes you as not having enough punch?
 
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I would look into changing the cartridge before changing the turntable, even though I own a Rega but am not a Rega TT fan. Most Rega dealers try to include the Rega cartridge in the deal because with the three point set up on the cartridges they have to do nothing other than put the three screws in and connect the headshell wires. To me the lower line Rega cartridges are shrill and overbearing. Like Bob said try another cartridge and then if you are still not happy you can take it with you to another turntable like a Traveler or a Clearaudio. I put an AT-120E/T on mine and it was night and day. In the end the fully manual part of the Rega experience lost out, but the change in cartridge was an improvement. There are several options in the less than $200 price range you can try before you dump the turntable.
 
I agree with the advice to start with the cartridge. I bought a P2/Bias a few years ago. I frankly didn't enjoy listening to music - didn't love the sound and felt like there was a lot of inner groove distortion. I finally decided that it was silly to not try to sort it out so I replaced the Bias with a Nagaoka mp-110 and used a Baerwald alignment protractor rather than Rega's method. I'm *much* happier. In addition to the Nagaokas and the Dynavector 10x5, lots of people use Ortofon Red, Blue, Bronze or Black, and the Denon DL-110.
 
The Nagaoka that Chris mentions is a very nice way to try to figure this out for $100, instead of taking a chance on the whole budget.
 
Thanks for the advice. I have a Sumiko Blue Point II on order that should arrive any day. I bought it for a possible TT upgrade (I had heard it on a Project 5.1se and really liked the sound of it).

Now I understand that the Rega tables can't just take other cartridges and require a special shim to raise the arm assembly (one reason why Regas are not tops on my list). I could use some washers temporarily, I suppose, but that kind of surgery on my TT is not something I look forward to.
 
Yes, the tone arm has 3 Phillips screws. My table is one of the later models with the slanted edge on the platter.

On a separate note, would adding an inexpensive outboard phono preamp like a Lehman, Clearaudio, or GramAmp provide better snap and more life to the system? I'm thinking the TT may be outclassed by the Sumiko cart (?).
 
There are lots of things you can do to the P2 that will vault it past the P3. A few off the top of my head:

  • Incognito tonearm rewire
  • Michell Counterweight
  • Groovetracer Subplatter
  • Ceramic bearing
  • Groovetracer acrylic (or Delrin if you have the extra $$$) platter
  • 24V motor upgrade
I'd start with the counterweight, subplatter and bearing, personally, as the rewire will not net you as much improvement and the 24V motor and platter are pricy. You could always try and score a Rega glass platter (they turn up occasionally on eBay) as a mid-point upgrade.

-D
 
MichaelGJK said:
Thanks for the advice. I have a Sumiko Blue Point II on order that should arrive any day. I bought it for a possible TT upgrade (I had heard it on a Project 5.1se and really liked the sound of it).

Now I understand that the Rega tables can't just take other cartridges and require a special shim to raise the arm assembly (one reason why Regas are not tops on my list). I could use some washers temporarily, I suppose, but that kind of surgery on my TT is not something I look forward to.
Click to expand...

I think the best and correct way to go is for washers to adjust VTA (don't worry it is probably better way than a vta adjuster) , try to find a glass platter and use the sumiko when it arrives.
If you are still not happy then perhaps a complete turntable upgrade will make sense.
If anything you won't spent much for the above tweaks in case you go for a new turntable.
 
You may not meet to raise the arm, it's only for certain cartridges if the VTA is out - slight tail down or parallel usually suite Rega arms.

I have a Myryad amp with phono stage. Was using a Clearaudio but stopped when I took the MC cartridge out of the system. Basically for MM there's little difference that I could hear - perhaps the Myryad is a hint warmer and sounds a tad bigger, but that's it. I didn't do a side by side comparison, so am relying on notoriously unreliable aural memory. Anyway, I doubt you'll gain anything by adding a separate preamp, the one in the Myryad is already better than most budget ones.
 
LP-THORN said:
I think the best and correct way to go is for washers to adjust VTA (don't worry it is probably better way than a vta adjuster) , try to find a glass platter and use the sumiko when it arrives.
If you are still not happy then perhaps a complete turntable upgrade will make sense.
If anything you won't spent much for the above tweaks in case you go for a new turntable.
Click to expand...

Good points - my argument is that the P3 is not that much of an improvement over the P2, and with the price difference, you can buy upgrades (some I listed) that will make the P2 far better than the P3.

That being said, if you still don't like the P2 after the cartridge upgrade, it may not be the turntable make for you. See if you can audition some of the turntables you have mentioned. Another one to try and listen to is Nottingham Analogue - that's what displaced my Planar 3 in my system.

Good luck!

-D
 
If I had a P2, I'd want the Rega white belt, the Groovetracer subplatter, and the Dynavector 10X5. If I had a P3 or a P5, I'd want the same. So with a P2 in hand, I would favor keeping and upgrading it, unless I was ready to move up to the P7. A used P7, minus the proceeds of selling the P2 would be under budget in this case.
 
Grottyash, thanks for the info on the Myryad, this certainly brings some comfort as that was bought unheard and I've been thoroughly impressed with the power, the fit and finish, and the flexibility. The phono section was an afterthought because I wasn't into vinyl, then. Glad it's decent.

I'm also intrigued that my little Rega may be capable of more. It was my first real TT and it sounded pretty good to me when I auditioned it. It was being discontinued, was heavily discounted, I liked the looks, so I bought it. Truth-be-told, it was the looks that sold me on it - that slanted platter looks pretty modern (I remember reading that there was a sonic reason for the design too). On that note, I also like the looks of the platter on the P7; kind of like the Gyrodeck. Too bad those don't go on sale very often (probably because they sound pretty good too).

I'm going back to listen to the Project 5.1se with Sumiko cart tomorrow. My friend who owns it just bought a VPI traveler and says it is better, so I'm really curious what he means. Who knows, I might be able to buy the Project if he's willing to part with it. Then again, if it sounds significantly worse...
 
I wanted to let folks know that I tried a few things that did not work well for me:

- Tried the Sumiko BPII on the Rega and it sounded rather thin and tinny. The arm was slightly off height-wise, so spacers were necessary (used generic metal washers). I realize that this may have contributed to the bad sound.

- Using a Lehmann Audio Black Cube did help the thin and tinny sound somewhat compared to the sound of the Myryad's internal phono stage, but it sounded more like I was missing a lot. That said, I was not expecting a difference, but it was there. Interesting.

- I also noticed that the RP2 has inconsistent speed. It's very slight, but noticeable at low volumes. I don't have anything to test this directly, but I can hear it so that's not good. I suppose this could just be a simple lubrication issue, but I'm not sure how to tackle that since the assembly looks to be pretty tight.

While I didn't spend too much time A/B testing all the possible combinations or trying too many other tweaks, I really felt that the table was no longer up to my expectations - having heard some very nice tables at shows and friends' houses, I was really itching for an upgrade.

So after some research I broke down and bought a new table that just arrived yesterday: a VPI Traveler. I wanted to buy something significantly better, yet still within budget and most of what people say about the Traveler online is pretty positive. More to the point of my particular issue, I get the sense that if I run into similar problems with the Traveler, there is someone I can contact state-side who isn't just a sales rep. My other choice was a Pro-Ject table, and while they certainly look striking in the gloss finishes, they have quite a few more detractors online.

Anyhow, I can't wait to get the Traveler set up this weekend to see how good it is. If I have time I'll try it with the Rega cart as well, just to make sure that's not the culprit.
 
If you want to lubricate the Rega, remove the platter and lift the subplatter straight up out of the bearing well. It takes a drop or two of 80W gear oil.
 
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