why does a large fullrange speaker sound special?

BadassBob said:
My main system is full of distortion....SET amp with a pair of FE207s, but it sure sounds sweet! :)
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I think we all have our preferred forms of distortion.

The best full range speaker I ever heard was the big SoundLab Ultimate electrostat. Acoustat made some good full range speakers too.
 
bebopdeluxe said:
My F's are the smoothest, most non-fatiguing way to present music that I have ever experienced.
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That is very true.... Many hours in one sitting will not cause fatigue. Even at high volume....

The smoothness is more than just the flat frequency response... it is the coherent sound wave, so the higher harmonics of the base tone are presented to the ear at the exact same/CORRECT time as the base freq. Can a crossover and multi-drivers do that ?

BLA BLA BLA :boring:.... the same old story of time/phase correctness....

But you really can't describe it.... you have to hear it.

jk
 
I'm going to vote for a combination of 4 factors:

1- The designers of the speaker did a good job tuning the frequency response to give a nice tonal balance.

2-The large driver is inherently directional in the mids and highs, which in turn reduces early room reflections. This tends to improve clarity, especially for vocals and dense orchestrations.

3- Some amount of distortion is very often pleasing, (or, "euphonic").

4- Similarly, limiting the bandwidth of a signal, particularly at the top end, often makes it subjectively preferable.

I doubt that "phase" or "coherence" or "speed" have anything to do with it.

http://www.kenkantor.com/publications/planar_speakers/planar.pdf



aidynphoenix said:
i am listening to a full range 12" papercone woofer,, its really lightweight, and has the oldschool magnet design,, its very very low wattage..
i have not been able to identify it, it was origionally in a westinghouse console

now i admit. it does not have the bass i need, and the high end can be harsh at times..

but there is something special about what i am hearing out of these.


is it the efficiency? or the lack of a crossover? is the the weight/speed of the driver??

what usually makes a fullrange driver sound good?
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Hmm, your PDF does not load in Firefox Kenneth. It does load in IE. ;)

"Loudspeakers, like other sex symbols," Good fun! :)
 
vuzh said:
Once fullrange speaker out of the piston mode, it appears such phase jumps, that multi-system did not dream.:)
At 12 "- is all, that is above 500 Hz.
Fullrange speaker sound special? - Special distortion.
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So, you're claiming that a full-range speaker will exhibit full phase rotation (360 degree shift) at a breakup mode? That's a new one on me, and I've measured a LOT of speakers... including some with some pretty severe break-up modes. Zilch may also have some input on this- I don't think he's ever got this sort of phase response discontinuities from a single driver, either?

OTOH, a fourth order crossover will go +180degrees/-180 degrees phase shift at crossover. That's a full rotation. That's BEFORE additional phase shift from the two different drivers (a woofer, which is going to have a built-in low-pass response somewhere near crossover, and a tweeter, which will have a built-in high-pass response- both of which add additional phase shift) is considered. And fourth-order crossovers are far from unheard of in multi-way speakers...

Regards,
Gordon.
 
ken kantor said:
I doubt that "phase" or "coherence" or "speed" have anything to do with it.
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My point here, regarding 'coherence', is that a single driver will inherently have a symmetric, uniform time/phase/cancellation response in all directions.

OTOH, a multi-way speaker, except for coaxials, will have a non-uniform cancellation pattern... just because the two or more drivers are mounted in different locations in space. This means that a multi-way speaker cannot have a completely symmetric, even dispersion pattern in all directions. A single driver or coax, can, if time delays and such are taken care of between the two or more drivers in the co-axial array. This means that more of the sonic spectrum arrives closer to "on time" in relation to the other parts... at a wider variety of listening positions... or, at least, it means the relative time delays don't change nearly as much, depending on where the listener is in relation to the speaker.

Regards,
Gordon.
 
I see your point. Honestly, I hadn't seen your use of the the term coherence when I posted my comment; I was disputing the populist idea that single drivers are inherently "phase coherent," or that phase coherence is particularly audible.

But, now that we are on the subject of dispersion... why would "a symmetric, uniform time/phase/cancellation response in all directions" be a desirable goal in a speaker? I would think that an asymmetrical pattern would often be a benefit. For example, one might want to aim a null towards the floor, but not above the listening axis. Etc.

BTW- oddly enough:

http://vlex.com/vid/incoherent-kantor-garfein-anxious-hippy-52652719



GordonW said:
My point here, regarding 'coherence', is that a single driver will inherently have a symmetric, uniform time/phase/cancellation response in all directions.

OTOH, a multi-way speaker, except for coaxials, will have a non-uniform cancellation pattern... just because the two or more drivers are mounted in different locations in space. This means that a multi-way speaker cannot have a completely symmetric, even dispersion pattern in all directions. A single driver or coax, can, if time delays and such are taken care of between the two or more drivers in the co-axial array. This means that more of the sonic spectrum arrives closer to "on time" in relation to the other parts... at a wider variety of listening positions... or, at least, it means the relative time delays don't change nearly as much, depending on where the listener is in relation to the speaker.

Regards,
Gordon.
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I have a pair of 1950 Jensens that have a single 12" driver (non-coaxial). The speakers say "Extended Range" on the back (how extended, I don't know, but they do make highs). The cabs are hugh bass reflex enclosures with beautiful walnut veneer. They get very loud with just a couple watts of power. They sound great, I'm very happy with them. :banana:

Bi-Amped by default, one driver = one amp
Bobby Dipole
 
Tom Brennan said:
Most of us have; with our TV sets and car and table radios for instance.
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I have the last generation of projection tube big screen TV, some cinema theater sound thing and it has a set of 8" whizzer cone drivers that always amaze me at their performance. The top end is not very extended and not all that crisp but the mids and bottom are very good.
 
kfa888 said:
I have the last generation of projection tube big screen TV, some cinema theater sound thing and it has a set of 8" whizzer cone drivers that always amaze me at their performance. The top end is not very extended and not all that crisp but the mids and bottom are very good.
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When that TV gives up the ghost, you should pick those drivers and see what you can do with em :yes:
 
I have my eyes on a pair of Jensen K-950s for sale locally for $5. Theyre from the mid 60s...coaxials, 50Hz to 14KHz. Im wondering if I could get any joy out of those :yes:.
 
I have some Utah 12" single drivers with a whizzer. Would like to play with them more some time but they do sound good as is and do have that something that is hard to explain. Would like to get them in a better designed cab and maybe with a helper tweeter. They sound best with my Sansui A1000 tube amp that tends to be bright.

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kfa888 said:
I have some Utah 12" single drivers with a whizzer. Would like to play with them more some time but they do sound good as is and do have that something that is hard to explain. Would like to get them in a better designed cab and maybe with a helper tweeter. They sound best with my Sansui A1000 tube amp that tends to be bright.
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Those are awesome looking. Ive been looking for something similar for a good year or so now. Whats the frequency range on them?
 
BadassBob said:
Those are awesome looking. Ive been looking for something similar for a good year or so now. Whats the frequency range on them?
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No idea. Medium low to medium high :D Have not dug them out for a while. Have proper measuring equipment now so will do it some day. They have a really odd bell shaped cone.
 
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