skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Big difference. No use tweaking anything unless you can have confidence in the mic, to start with.
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Zilch's AK Design Collaborative - Econowave Speaker
- Thread starter Zilch
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Big difference. No use tweaking anything unless you can have confidence in the mic, to start with.
donprice
Wound up workin' at a gas station....
Chip amp vs Dennon receiver...gated and smoothed.
A fraction of a dB difference across the board. Probably as close as it gets for level matching with knobs.
Speaking of knobs, another variable is the little mixing board used. Behringer Xenyx 802. Set to flat, of course. No gear to eliminate it.
So...does this result look reasonable for high efficency ewave crossover? Reasonable meaning it rolls off where expected.
The only other "reference" speaker I have is the AK Indignia.
A fraction of a dB difference across the board. Probably as close as it gets for level matching with knobs.
Speaking of knobs, another variable is the little mixing board used. Behringer Xenyx 802. Set to flat, of course. No gear to eliminate it.
So...does this result look reasonable for high efficency ewave crossover? Reasonable meaning it rolls off where expected.
The only other "reference" speaker I have is the AK Indignia.
Attachments
Kneedeepinit
Super Member
going to pick up my parts tomorrow so the build begins on Sunday. I hope this works because I have already purchased the beginnings of phase two - a pair of 4311 with one bad woofer and missing tweeters for $100.
I figure I can sell the mids on ebay for close to the $100 and then patiently wait for a second woofer. One 2212 woofer plus matching ported cabinets for free is a good start.
I figure I can sell the mids on ebay for close to the $100 and then patiently wait for a second woofer. One 2212 woofer plus matching ported cabinets for free is a good start.
If that's what you want to know, disconnect the woofer before you measure, but yes, it looks about right.
dnewma04
The Healer
Because of the sub 60hz response? I'm not sure I follow.
Well now that I look at it again... Actually, what is going on with the vertical lines on this graph? It looks like it starts on a log scale from 10Hz (off the chart), meaning 100Hz would be where it's just starting to rise above 90dB. That's what I was referring to before, and that's the only way this thing makes sense to me, but there's an extra line before each of the marked ones when you read it that way... Am I just being dense here?
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Don,
It seems you are running 2 monitors simultaneously for the measurement, right? If so, just do one at a standard distance.
It seems you are running 2 monitors simultaneously for the measurement, right? If so, just do one at a standard distance.
donprice
Wound up workin' at a gas station....
No, just one. Measured at 40" from where the woofer meets the waveguide.
dnewma04
The Healer
I misread it too, but I wouldn't take the approach to try to make the sensitivity match the shelf in the bass response. I often ignore measurements below about 200hz on product specs.
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
OK Don. I just went back to my last EWave measurement of standard EWave guide on D220Ti with Digital Chris' crossovers to remind myself. I removed smoothing and extended the gate window out to 5ms. See attached. I think the ragged dips we both get are close to 9dB at the same frequency locations. The difference I see is you don't show the breakup spike way up top. However, I measured directly on tweeter axis, so that may account for the UHF loss in your measurements compared to mine. (You measured between woofer/tweeter.) I think the crossover region looks good.
Attachments
Kneedeepinit
Super Member
project update - got everything roughed in. The crossovers are built and I have it temporarily hooked up to a pair of Decade 26 speakers. These feature the 125a woofer.
The speakers are outstanding. A huge upgrade on the original. This might be good enough to stop upgrading. The bass is clear and full, there are no midrange holes, and the highs are smooth. The highs are what makes this so much better than the original.
Sitting next to the Decade 26 is a Decade 36. These are the same speaker except have a mid range driver. Even these are not as good as the econowave.
This is a pretty big project. Allow 20 + hours to research and 5 hours fabrication to get to this point. The finishing now begins. These are good enough that I want to do it right so it may take a few months to come up with the design and to do it.
A huge Thank You to the guys who have helped, especially Don Price and Dumptruck.
The speakers are outstanding. A huge upgrade on the original. This might be good enough to stop upgrading. The bass is clear and full, there are no midrange holes, and the highs are smooth. The highs are what makes this so much better than the original.
Sitting next to the Decade 26 is a Decade 36. These are the same speaker except have a mid range driver. Even these are not as good as the econowave.
This is a pretty big project. Allow 20 + hours to research and 5 hours fabrication to get to this point. The finishing now begins. These are good enough that I want to do it right so it may take a few months to come up with the design and to do it.
A huge Thank You to the guys who have helped, especially Don Price and Dumptruck.
donprice
Wound up workin' at a gas station....
What are you using on the woofer for L2 and C2?
Here's what I ended up with using L2 = 2.5 mH and C2 = 15 uF.
Graphs #1 smoothed (1/6th octave) and # 2 gated. Using the standard (<95 dB woofer) crossover HF section might push the XO point lower. The second 125A woofer refoam job should be finished tomorrow. I may work up the "standard" XO for comparison since I now have the parts.
Be warned that your first ewave mod may not be the last. The woofers used in the L88/L100/4311/4312 (among others) should be ideal and perhaps better if used in a larger cabinet.
Here's what I ended up with using L2 = 2.5 mH and C2 = 15 uF.
Graphs #1 smoothed (1/6th octave) and # 2 gated. Using the standard (<95 dB woofer) crossover HF section might push the XO point lower. The second 125A woofer refoam job should be finished tomorrow. I may work up the "standard" XO for comparison since I now have the parts.
Be warned that your first ewave mod may not be the last. The woofers used in the L88/L100/4311/4312 (among others) should be ideal and perhaps better if used in a larger cabinet.
Attachments
Kneedeepinit
Super Member
I used the D220Ti wit the high efficiency crossover design. I am not certain if the woofers are >95 db but the match between the woofer and horn is very good.
I have an offer on a pair of 4311 for my next project.
I have been playing with my setup and it sounds fantastic. It is a Deluxe setup with jbl 2204h woofers on a 2.8cf box. I am currently testing different placements as i am experimenting with three subwoofers to flatten room LF response. The extreme toe in provides a huge 7 people rectangular sweet spot, quite nice.
Attachments
skywave-rider
Slumming in Akihabara
Those boxes look nice. :thmbsp:
I have mine "overhanging" too.
I have mine "overhanging" too.
I'd guess a more complicated crossover on the 125A woofer could be an improvement, but then Don's 2.5mH/15uF does appear to sum well, so maybe it's best to leave well enough alone. The woofer is not that efficient, but as long as flat response is in the L-pad range it doesn't really matter that the HE crossover is used. IIRC, he said he was measuring halfway between waveguide and woofer centers, and since he appears to have perfect summing at crossover point, that halfway point should be your listening axis (through tilt if not through tall stands). High stands with the vents heavily stuffed and some subs would probably be ideal.
The higher crossover point should be a good thing for a 10" woofer, at least as far directivity.
The higher crossover point should be a good thing for a 10" woofer, at least as far directivity.
ampsandsound
Active Member
Here is my turn at the Basic Econowave... Parts express cabs are horrific... Building your own is a much better idea. I had the Selenium D220Tis, bought the Dayton $12 horn and the DC300 12" woofer. Crossovers are from Zilches design. My good Friend Dave Harris @ fastlanaudio made these bad boys for me. The crossovers are great... The Lpad is needed to taylor to personal taste.
