5.1 or 7.1 Multichannel Pre Amp or maybe AVR

jocko_nc

jocko_nc

Super Member
Hey y'all. It has been a while since the last time I even logged in to AK. Lost a wife. Dropped everything. Moved from NC to OH. In the process, I somehow forgot to even log in here. ???.

Question: I am building a place here. I sold everything and am building a barndominium. I will not have a proper theatre this time. However, I will have a projector in the garage and would like to have 5.1 surround in the space. It is a huge space, 1600 ft with almost 18 ft ceiling. In the past, I used an AVR with pre-outs. I amped the L, R, and C, and let the AVR run the surround. This time my surrounds will be way up on a high ceiling in a huge space. It is a barn. The length from the amps will be many feet, like 50 or 60 or more feet depending on how I run the wire. I have a multi-channel 70 V amplifier and two pair of 70 V selectable speakers. I need to feed the rears from the 70 V amplifier. I need 5 or 7 channel pre-outs.

L,R, and C will be Heresy with power amps close by. Dual DaytonReference subs. Easy enough. But the 70 V runs are a problem. Any ideas for a 5.1 or 7.1 preamp. Skip the AVR. I need pre-outs for all channels. What preamp do I possibly use for this? I see the new $5000 stuff. Nice. Not what I need. I see the older high-end stuff on ThatAuctionSite. Many still have S-Video outs. ???. I need something that will decode a BluRay and current digital HDMI. How to do this? What used equipment might be suitable?

Thanks.

Jocko is Back.
 
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Separates = $$$, there's not much getting around it if you require current HDMI compatibility with blu-ray and presumably, 4k looking forward. good luck.
 
What is your budget?

AV preamps tend to be very expensive. Emotiva used to make an affordable UMC-200, but they eventually fail (HDMI board) and replacement parts aren’t available. Outlaw made one, but I don’t think it had any room correction.

Yamaha Aventage AVR’s sre a very good choice to use as a preamp (I’m using the 880, which seemed to be the sweet spot of somewhat smallish size and good performance. It sounds great for movies and 2 channel music.
 
jocko_nc said:
Hey y'all. It has been a while since the last time I even logged in to AK. Lost a wife. Dropped everything. Moved from NC to OH. In the process, I somehow forgot to even log in here. ???.

Question: I am building a place here. I sold everything and am building a barndominium. I will not have a proper theatre this time. However, I will have a projector in the garage and would like to have 5.1 surround in the space. It is a huge space, 1600 ft with almost 18 ft ceiling. In the past, I used an AVR with pre-outs. I amped the L, R, and C, and let the AVR run the surround. This time my surrounds will be way up on a high ceiling in a huge space. It is a barn. The length from the amps will be many feet, like 50 or 60 or more feet depending on how I run the wire. I have a multi-channel 70 V amplifier and two pair of 70 V selectable speakers. I need to feed the rears from the 70 V amplifier. I need 5 or 7 channel pre-outs.

L,R, and C will be Heresy with power amps close by. Dual DaytonReference subs. Easy enough. But the 70 V runs are a problem. Any ideas for a 5.1 or 7.1 preamp. Skip the AVR. I need pre-outs for all channels. What preamp do I possibly use for this? I see the new $5000 stuff. Nice. Not what I need. I see the older high-end stuff on ThatAuctionSite. Many still have S-Video outs. ???. I need something that will decode a BluRay and current digital HDMI. How to do this? What used equipment mi ght be suitable?

Thanks.

Jocko is Back.
Click to expand...
I absolutely love my Rotel 7.1 audio preamps. I’ve one big 4k model and the other is 1080p. Don’t care because I don’t use them to route video. I bought mine of EBay from Whybuynewguy. They are b-stock straight from Roel. 1/3rd the price. On system is using Rotel 5 channel, one two channel Rotel class D 250 wpc x 7. My other uses a
Massive Crestron cnampx 7x200. My speakers and passive subs are all RBH reference. I built my
Own ICE powered 1000 wpc amp to drive em with. I
Paid 1/4 of their new price tag. I also own a massive Pioneer VSX-59TXI receiver 7 channel
Beast that could easily power your setup.

My condolences on the loss of your sweat heart.
 

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Yea, price is going to be an issue. This is by no means a home theatre. I had that in the place that I sold. More like a sports bar. I am building this mostly out of equipment I already have.

I wanted rear channels and bought some decent Monoprice 70 V capable. I found a low-cost 6 channel Rockville 70 V amp. Now, to get some signals to them. A mid-price AVR could have pre-outs for SUB, L, C, R. I don't recall seeing many AVRs with the rear pre-outs. As far as amps, I have (2) CS800 Peavey, (1) SC400 Peavey. Adcom 454II. Plenty of channels. The subs prefer CS800 in mono. I have (3) Heresy for LCR and pole stands. for L and R. More than enough sound. The acoustics are going to be horrible, so I have a large number of acoustic panels TBD.

Thanks for the heads up on the Rotel. I could see that as an investment toward a more serious system.

This is the space!
 

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ernieS said:
I absolutely love my Rotel 7.1 audio preamps. I’ve one big 4k model and the other is 1080p. Don’t care because I don’t use them to route video. I bought mine of EBay from Whybuynewguy. They are b-stock straight from Roel. 1/3rd the price. On system is using Rotel 5 channel, one two channel Rotel class D 250 wpc x 7. My other uses a
Massive Crestron cnampx 7x200. My speakers and passive subs are all RBH reference. I built my
Own ICE powered 1000 wpc amp to drive em with. I
Paid 1/4 of their new price tag. I also own a massive Pioneer VSX-59TXI receiver 7 channel
Beast that could easily power your setup.

My condolences on the loss of your sweat heart.
Click to expand...
What would be a suitable model number Rotel? New enough to handle the more modern HDMI. I will not be switching video either. I really need to think about where and what my video will be. I will have to go wifi. Maybe a Roku and a BluRay. I don't have the data thing figured out yet.
 
Or maybe I just jump L and R into the rears and duplicate the signals. I don't know if anyone could tell the difference.
 
jocko_nc said:
What would be a suitable model number Rotel? New enough to handle the more modern HDMI. I will not be switching video either. I really need to think about where and what my video will be. I will have to go wifi. Maybe a Roku and a BluRay. I don't have the data thing figured out yet.
Click to expand...
RSP-1582 is my 4k model. Is both RCA and balanced out. I paid $800. You can also pick up Denon AVR-3000 ir higher. Both kids run avr-3803 in their homes. Bought em for $100. I dont route video through them. Smart TVs have everything app wise. I run toslink from tv to preamp/receiver. What ever plays in the tv is what you hear. Simple.
 
jocko_nc said:
Yea, price is going to be an issue. This is by no means a home theatre. I had that in the place that I sold. More like a sports bar. I am building this mostly out of equipment I already have.

I wanted rear channels and bought some decent Monoprice 70 V capable. I found a low-cost 6 channel Rockville 70 V amp. Now, to get some signals to them. A mid-price AVR could have pre-outs for SUB, L, C, R. I don't recall seeing many AVRs with the rear pre-outs. As far as amps, I have (2) CS800 Peavey, (1) SC400 Peavey. Adcom 454II. Plenty of channels. The subs prefer CS800 in mono. I have (3) Heresy for LCR and pole stands. for L and R. More than enough sound. The acoustics are going to be horrible, so I have a large number of acoustic panels TBD.

Thanks for the heads up on the Rotel. I could see that as an investment toward a more serious system.

This is the space!
Click to expand...

For sure, settle on what functionality you need first, then figure out what brand and model to buy.

I'm not sure where you are getting the impression that AVR's with preouts typically only have LCR and not rears. Most of the AVR's that have preouts have full 5.1 or 7.1 outputs. There was a time long ago when some AVR's had powered 3 channels up front, and then preouts for rear for those who wanted to add a surround. I think there are some niche low-end models that allow you to run an amp for the front 3 channels to increase power, but that is a tiny niche. Most AVR's either have all or none.

For your barn with horrible acoustics, you will definitely want a fairly recent AVR or AV preamp with room correction as it will definitely help cope with an acoustically non-optimal room. You will definitely want room correction for that difficult room.

I would recommend getting an AVR that supports 4k HDMI switching also -- not sure what projector you are running now, but it's worthwhile to futureproof yourself for 4k if you upgrade your projector in the future (there are affordable 4k projectors available used).

jocko_nc said:
Or maybe I just jump L and R into the rears and duplicate the signals. I don't know if anyone could tell the difference.
Click to expand...

You very definitely do not want to do this -- it will sound awful. It's pretty easy to fill a large room with discrete 5.1 or 7.1 content (because the content is unique to each channel, you avoid most instances of cross-room frequency cancellations). It's good that you're using 2-channel amp speakers for music, which will help avoid room cancellations. Repeating front L/R content to rear on your 5.1 system will create room cancellations and overemphasis at various frequencies in that large room and it will sound awful, PLUS you'll also lose all of the surround sound effect for movie effects. Definitely do not do this, and there is no need to because the vast majority of AVR's that have preamp outputs have it for all 5.1/7.1 channels. You must have only looked at a few odd examples of AVR's that didn't have full outputs.

Newer is better in almost all respects for AVR or AV pramps (and this is from a hard-core vintage audio person). If you indicate your budget, we can probably help you find something that works well for your environment.
 
For your situation I would look into running power and speaker cables to the speaker locations that are far from the source components. Then I would use the newer class D amps located at the speakers to power them. Or you could used powered speakers that are wired or wireless. As for amps, something like Fosi V3 Monos come to mind. They have XLR inputs so long distances degrading the input signal isn't a problem. The V3 Monos put out plenty of clean power to drive surround speakers as well as the FCL channels.
 
So I have one of these for a different application. $60 and it will turn hdmi audio into 5.1 or 7.1 analog. 3.5mm to RCA for the outs, then RCA in on whatever amp you want to use. Passes through up to 4k video on hdmi. I don’t use it for video but can confirm the audio works.

Ideally your source would decode the audio although this unit will do some of the basics like Dolby Digital, AC3, DTS 5.1 and LPCM 2CH.

Amazon.com: HDMI LPCM 5.1 7.1 to Analog Surround Decoder with Repeater Function : Musical Instruments

Amazon.com: HDMI LPCM 5.1 7.1 to Analog Surround Decoder with Repeater Function : Musical Instruments
a.co
 
Running power to the location is going to be tricky. Difficult to get to. Up the wall the through the trusses looks to be the way to go. These cables are NOT a part of the electrician's scope of work. If I add anything now, it will require a change to the permit. I have to do this myself after inspection. I have a bunch of 14-2 cable which is CL2 for the rears at 70 V. There will not be so much resistance.

That Black Box looks cool. The output jacks look to be "stereo". Two channels per.

I will look closer into the AVRs. The pre-outs are not readily described in the web pages. I will dig deeper. I would agree that an AVR with all pre-outs would be the easy way to go. The AVR could even power the center channel and free up an amplifier.

Thanks guys.
 
I don't have a projector yet. I do know this will be a long throw application. I really don't care so much about the contrast and the resolution specifications. Brightness will matter, however. I will give up performance for the ability to overpower ambient light. This is a bar application.
 
Lens to screen on the opposite wall is about 32 ft. According to Epson, a laser business long throw projector will do about 210 screen size as 32 ft. 6000 lumen. Starting with that...
 
jocko_nc said:
I don't have a projector yet. I do know this will be a long throw application. I really don't care so much about the contrast and the resolution specifications. Brightness will matter, however. I will give up performance for the ability to overpower ambient light. This is a bar application.
Click to expand...

I’m not really a projector expert - I do a deep dive of the market every time I do a projector upgrade (about 8 projectors over last 25 years), but then don’t track the market after that.

I think Epson are generally better for bright conditions. I’m able to get away with BenQ in my dimly lit vintage bar setting in the basement, but Epson is a better choice for brighter environments.

I definitely think it’s worth getting 4k. In my last projector upgrade a lot of people told me to not bother with 4k because so little content is 4k, but I did 4k anyway and it’s just a lot better, and there is 4k content available now (e.g. 4K YouTube via Roku, 4k Olympics on Peacock via Roku, etc).
 
jocko_nc said:
The usual brand AVRs look to have full pre-out starting at $1300.00
Click to expand...

Accessories4less sells reconditioned with warranties and allows you to show all the AVRs with preamp outs in their search criteria. Looks like around $900 is the floor for like new with full warranty. I prefer Yamaha over other mainstream brands for AVRs for reliability and sound quality.
 
jocko_nc said:
That Black Box looks cool. The output jacks look to be "stereo". Two channels per.
Click to expand...
It is pretty cool! Saved my bacon for a really niche use case. Each 3.5mm out is 2 channels: Front L/R; Rear L/R; Rear Surround L/R; and Center/Sub. So one 3.5mm per 2 channels --> 1 RCA per channel.
 
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