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Advice – US compared to EU 220v

Sandstrom

Sandstrom

Seldom turns out the way it does in the song
I wanted to check in with the collective wisdom here on something I am working on. Tried posting in response to an old thread that was related but think my post got lost there so thought I'd start a fresh thread in hopes of finding the answer to what I think is a simple question.

I recently traded for a German made integrated that is rated for 230v and rather than going the step up route I was thinking of constructing a cable to run from a (as luck would have it) nearby 15 amp 220 outlet that was installed to run a wall mounted AC unit. Usually getting around 240 here which I am not expecting to be a problem.

Is there any reason this is a bad idea? One thing that's nice is the power cord isn't captive (IEC Type Connection) so I can replace the Shuco Type F with a US plugged grounded type.
I picked up some materials to assemble an adapter/extension cord, but before I dive in I wanted to see if I shouldn't be going this route for any reason.

The only thing that I am not really sure about is the difference in the way the EU wires there 230 versus here. I don't know if the way we in the U.S. have the voltage split between two legs would cause any issue for the amplifier? Given that the EU has their 230v at full potential on one side and 0 on the other does this present a problem or does the amp not "know" the difference?

I did get some good 14/3 heavy duty power cable with a 300v rating, a 6-15P plug for the existing outlet and a 6-20R for the other end so I can plug in a standard US power cable. I realize combining these parts in this configuration would be creating a potentially hazardous cable to the uniformed but I am not worried about anybody potentially trying to use this cable in my current living situation. I also plan to label this power lead clearly indicating that it should not be used, "220 only" or something like that.

Would really appreciate any advice or things to watch out for as I don't want to create any issues with the new amp.

Thanks everyone!
 
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Should work fine.
Eu usually 50hz
But not likely anything in there references it.
Things with ac motors (think TTs) might run fast on 60hz.
That should work fine
 
As long as you make a proper cable with a male plug on one end and a female socket on the other end, you should be good.
 
Thanks for confirming all, I couldn't see any reason why there would be a problem but I wanted to check here first. I couldn't see how this wouldn't be as good of a solution as a step up and very likely better.
 
nj pheonix said:
Should work fine.
Eu usually 50hz
But not likely anything in there references it.
Things with ac motors (think TTs) might run fast on 60hz.
That should work fine
Click to expand...
what he said, absent any 50hz motors, the ac->dc converting power supplies should handle the rest. be warned, their '220' is derived differently than our '220'

('220' in quotes on purpose....)
 
Not a good idea. The hot side of voltage is suppose to be the switched and fused side. If you use our 240 volt source, you have no neutral (NEC violation), and there is no fuse on the other side that would have been the neutral. Any internal failure could put 120v (one leg of the 240) onto the chassis.

EU voltage:

__________ com
__________ 220

US voltage

__________120
__________COM
__________120

To get 240 in US

__________120
__________120

No neutral. Very, very bad.

In other words, don't do it.

Get a step-up transformer. Parts Express has them and they are inexpensive.
 
WaynerN said:
Not a good idea. The hot side of voltage is suppose to be the switched and fused side. If you use our 240 volt source, you have no neutral (NEC violation), and there is no fuse on the other side that would have been the neutral. Any internal failure could put 120v (one leg of the 240) onto the chassis.

EU voltage:

__________ com
__________ 220

US voltage

__________120
__________COM
__________120

To get 240 in US

__________120
__________120

No neutral. Very, very bad.

In other words, don't do it.

Get a step-up transformer. Parts Express has them and they are inexpensive.
Click to expand...
This was my main purpose enquiring here. I wasn't sure if the different phasing of 220 here vs the EU was going to be an issue given the amps DE origin. I had read many accounts where people used equipment in the way I was suggesting but no one seemed to address the 120/120 vs 240/0 difference and if that was a problem.

I eventually plan to source a decent step up but in the interim mainly wanted to be able to initially try out the amp if I could do so without risking anything...
 
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Pop it open and see if the transformer has multiple taps on it. Not impossible that minor changes under the hood can make it a 120v unit.

It'll work fine on the AC outlet for testing. If you have a grounded cord there is not a lot of worry about internal failures causing death or anything of that nature. If you want to do it proper, you'd need an iso transformer and you would need to bond one side of the output to ground to form a neutral. At that point you'd more closely replicate Euro-style mains wiring.
 
WaynerN said:
Not a good idea. The hot side of voltage is suppose to be the switched and fused side. If you use our 240 volt source, you have no neutral (NEC violation), and there is no fuse on the other side that would have been the neutral. Any internal failure could put 120v (one leg of the 240) onto the chassis.

EU voltage:

__________ com
__________ 220

US voltage

__________120
__________COM
__________120

To get 240 in US

__________120
__________120

No neutral. Very, very bad.

In other words, don't do it.

Get a step-up transformer. Parts Express has them and they are inexpensive.
Click to expand...

Interesting point
I hadn't really considered it from that point of view.
From a functional stand point it should work fine.
If the chassis is grounded , it's like any other 220v device.
 
nj pheonix said:
Interesting point
I hadn't really considered it from that point of view.
From a functional stand point it should work fine.
If the chassis is grounded , it's like any other 220v device.
Click to expand...

Exactly. How is this any different to a metal bodied electric stove top?
 
You should check with a local electrician to be sure your electrical code permits this.

If I'm not mistaken (in Canada at least) 240V installation in a residential location is only permitted for fixed appliances,ie stove,dryer,hot water tank,hot tub etc.
You are not permitted 240v outlets for ''general'' use.The US situation may differ.


As for wiring,you would approach this the same way as you would a hot water tank: 240V line and a ground. Neutral plays absolutely no role in this application.Each individual line must be fused (or usually a double breaker) at the panel, and you MUST break BOTH lines,both at the power panel and at the unit itself.
 
arts said:
You should check with a local electrician to be sure your electrical code permits this.

If I'm not mistaken (in Canada at least) 240V installation in a residential location is only permitted for fixed appliances,ie stove,dryer,hot water tank,hot tub etc.
You are not permitted 240v outlets for ''general'' use.The US situation may differ.
Click to expand...

It does. Plenty of ham radio ops have kilowatt watt amps that are 220v powered.


220v window AC units are also common.
 
arts said:
You should check with a local electrician to be sure your electrical code permits this.

If I'm not mistaken (in Canada at least) 240V installation in a residential location is only permitted for fixed appliances,ie stove,dryer,hot water tank,hot tub etc.
You are not permitted 240v outlets for ''general'' use.The US situation may differ.


As for wiring,you would approach this the same way as you would a hot water tank: 240V line and a ground. Neutral plays absolutely no role in this application.Each individual line must be fused (or usually a double breaker) at the panel, and you MUST break BOTH lines,both at the power panel and at the unit itself.
Click to expand...
Interesting, not sure how Canadian code defers if at all. I have had homes with standalone 220 outlets, such as in a garage that had no fixed appliance purpose. I always assumed a previous owner may have used a portable welder, etc.

My panel has a pinned and joined standard 220 double breaker so if it was to switch off in a fault situation (in either leg) both sides would be cut.
 
I see this has been said - but NO!
DO NOT DO THIS

It's been said, but you don't want to turn the UK ground into a USA hot leg.

Ya, open the unit up and see if it's a multi-tap transformer. It's a long shot that it would have a 120 or USA 220, doubtful.
 
The neutral is attached to the chassis - chassis is grounded.
Turn the neutral into a 120 hot leg and energize the chassis.

Even if (and I doubt this) the neutral isn't attached to the chassis, eliminating the neutral on the transformer is a bad idea. And what if it's not floating, it's a grounded (again, to chassis) transformer. And then consider the switch the fuse (as mentioned earlier in the thread)

I'm not sure that I'm 100% right, not knowing UK standards. But too many chances to either start a fire or get hurt.
 
Dingman said:
The neutral is attached to the chassis - chassis is grounded.
Turn the neutral into a 120 hot leg and energize the chassis.

Even if (and I doubt this) the neutral isn't attached to the chassis, eliminating the neutral on the transformer is a bad idea. And what if it's not floating, it's a grounded (again, to chassis) transformer. And then consider the switch the fuse (as mentioned earlier in the thread)

I'm not sure that I'm 100% right, not knowing UK standards. But too many chances to either start a fire or get hurt.
Click to expand...


And just how is a fire to get started. And how is this any different from an electric stove top with a metal body? In the US, both of these would be powered by 240v from two 120v legs and a common.

Bear in mind there are Antique radios that are transformerless and some are still used today. Plug it in the wrong way, and you have close to 100vac on the chassis.

Also, WaynerN has an unhealthy fear of the NEC, and holds them in too high esteem. :D
 
Well, I went ahead and ordered a 2000w step up, was just not feeling warm and fuzzy about the two hot leads and no neutral...
 
ducati_EL34 said:
And just how is a fire to get started. And how is this any different from an electric stove top with a metal body? In the US, both of these would be powered by 240v from two 120v legs and a common.

Bear in mind there are Antique radios that are transformerless and some are still used today. Plug it in the wrong way, and you have close to 100vac on the chassis.

Also, WaynerN has an unhealthy fear of the NEC, and holds them in too high esteem. :D
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue with you about it. If you want a hot chassis, go for it.
 
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