American History X....Great Movie!

M

Mister Pig

Pigamus Maximus
Was downstairs yesterday afternoon, and digging through the movies. Came across American History X, and it was unopened. Apparently I bought it during one of the Wallmart Black Friday sales, and never watched it.

So I popped it in, didn't know what it was about at all. What an in t t t ense movie! Very gritty, realistic, and harsh. But so riveting, it was a great watch from beginning to end.

Actually several years ago I had read a book about the founding of the Militia movement in the Pacific Northwest. How much of the ideological underpinnings come from various groups such as the KKK, John Birch Society, and the White Supremacy theology. It was a fascinating read from a sociological point of view.

Some interesting thoughts about the function of militia groups in our society came about from reading it. Perhaps these fringe groups are not dangerous to the stability of society, but actually protect it. For it gathers the marginal members of society in a group where they can be monitored, analyzed, maybe distracted by the ideology and propaganda of their movement.....in short controlled.

Anyways, I digress. It's a violent and grim movie, but its captivating in it shows a side of our nature that is hard to look in the eye.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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Edward Norton is great in this. A bit predictable and melodramatic at the end, but nonetheless, a gripping movie.

A movie in a similar vein is The Believer (2001) where a young Jewish boy (Ryan Gosling in a great performance) becomes a neo-Nazi.
 
Disturbing but still great movie. Kinda like watching a slow motion car wreck. Ed Norton hasnt done anything near this good since.
 
I had seen and quite forgotten the movie until Hajidub mentioned the curbing scene. It was better forgotten. As Theoden said in LOTR, "What can you do against such reckless hate?"
 
Mister Pig said:
Was downstairs yesterday afternoon, and digging through the movies. Came across American History X, and it was unopened. Apparently I bought it during one of the Wallmart Black Friday sales, and never watched it.

So I popped it in, didn't know what it was about at all. What an in t t t ense movie! Very gritty, realistic, and harsh. But so riveting, it was a great watch from beginning to end.

Actually several years ago I had read a book about the founding of the Militia movement in the Pacific Northwest. How much of the ideological underpinnings come from various groups such as the KKK, John Birch Society, and the White Supremacy theology. It was a fascinating read from a sociological point of view.

Some interesting thoughts about the function of militia groups in our society came about from reading it. Perhaps these fringe groups are not dangerous to the stability of society, but actually protect it. For it gathers the marginal members of society in a group where they can be monitored, analyzed, maybe distracted by the ideology and propaganda of their movement.....in short controlled.

Anyways, I digress. It's a violent and grim movie, but its captivating in it shows a side of our nature that is hard to look in the eye.

Regards
Mister Pig
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"Protect" society? Nah. The goal is to destabilize. And the only "control" of these people is excerted by their leaders- the racists, warmongers, nuts, and Hitler worshippers.
 
Hajidub said:
The "curbing" still makes me cringe to this day!
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The scariest part for me was that both my teenage boys knew what "Curb Stomping" was and I didn't.:nono:
Maybe they are better off being streetwise than naive in this day and age.:scratch2:
 
I notice that many people seem to focus on the violence and drama of the movie, never looking past the surface, When in college I was a business major that aspired for a double major in sociology. Life circumstances didn't allow me to get the second BA, but I still look at the work from a sociological point of view.

What I find interesting is that many of the "issues" discussed by this group of marginalized people..white supremacist...are also echoed in a lesser degree by mainstream society. we don't condone the violence and hate that is true. But in some ways are these militia type groups a pale reflection of what we are as a society?

I know this topic can skirt the forbidden topics of AK. Government and religion are off limits. From a social perspective, society is about the distribution and allocation of scare resources that a society possesses. Religion and government are two institutions that form a portion of societal construct, and we will leave them alone in this thread. But this topic can still be discussed from a social, psychological, and anthropology world view.

So from a social standpoint what is the purpose of a disenfranchised group of people? Every grouping has a purpose in a society, none of this is just pure randomness.

Curious to see what you have to say on this topic.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
Government and religion.

So from a social standpoint what is the purpose of a disenfranchised group of people? Every grouping has a purpose in a society, none of this is just pure randomness.
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A most profound question put to us, MP!

(1) It is very hard to separate these two factions in regard to your query, in that, by these ideas many people have chosen to form their opinions to live their lives & how they view others that do not look like them.

(2) Survival. I can remember growing up where the neighborhood was all Black. Though, I personally did not feel that we were a disenfranchised group, but the powers to be from the inception of this country & still today on a somewhat narrower framework view the Negro race as such.

Mind you, each race of people has faults & a lot of Black people experience hardships due to self-inflicted damage. Out of wedlock pregnancies, drug trafficking, prostitution, & crimes committed among ourselves are just a few. Now, this is not just a Black thing, but one all other ethnic classes experience as well.

It is a form of self preservation & comfort to be surrounded by those who think, look, & act like you do. It is only natural, but the problem comes when you or that group think that you are the Lord & rule over another at any cost. Herein, we had a stain that remains un-washable namely, Slavery.

I hope this sheds a little beacon of light to a subject that needs addressing on a widespread scale.

Rome
 
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Rome said:
A most profound question put to us, MP!

(1) It is very hard to separate these two factions in regard to your query, in that, by these ideas many people have chosen to form their opinions to live their lives & how they view others that do not look like them.

(2) Survival. I can remember growing up where the neighborhood was all Black. Though, I personally did not feel that we were a disenfranchised group, but the powers to be from the inception of this country & still today on a somewhat narrower framework view the Negro race as such.

Mind you, each race of people has faults & a lot of Black people experience hardships due to self-inflicted damage. Out of wedlock pregnancies, drug trafficking, prostitution, & crimes committed among ourselves are just a few. Now, this is not just a Black thing, but one all other ethnic classes experience as well.

It is a form of self preservation & comfort to be surrounded by those who think, look, & act like you do. It is only natural, but the problem comes when you or that group think that you are the Lord & rule over another at any cost. Herein, we had a stain that remains un-washable namely, Slavery.

I hope this sheds a little beacon of light to a subject that needs addressing on widespread scale.

Rome
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Hi Rome

Sure for the members of the marginalized group that makes perfect sense. Safety in numbers, a larger voice in society when you act as one, and a reinforcement of ideology when you are around those who think like you do.

But take the question one step farther. What is the benefit to society from the existence of these groups? Now society is an amorphous construct that exists everywhere, but is intangible. Society does not exist without people, but it is separate and distinct from people. It has one primary goal, which is the continued existence of itself, and yet it is the means and mechanism in which we organize, categorize, grade, and define peoples lives.

So what is the purpose of having a marginalized group exist within a society, when often its stated purpose is to change or even destroy the status quo?

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Mister Pig said:
Hi Rome

Sure for the members of the marginalized group that makes perfect sense. Safety in numbers, a larger voice in society when you act as one, and a reinforcement of ideology when you are around those who think like you do.

But take the question one step farther. What is the benefit to society from the existence of these groups? Now society is an amorphous construct that exists everywhere, but is intangible. Society does not exist without people, but it is separate and distinct from people. It has one primary goal, which is the continued existence of itself, and yet it is the means and mechanism in which we organize, categorize, grade, and define peoples lives.

So what is the purpose of having a marginalized group exist within a society, when often its stated purpose is to change or even destroy the status quo?

Regards
Mister Pig
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Well, that is quite the subject as it relates to the framework of humankind. As humans we have been given the freedom to make choices. Some choose to do good things & others not so.

If the groups in question set out to destroy the peace & sanctity of others thank goodness we have laws albeit, local, state, & federal that will not allow such disturbances.

Some groups choose to help others & make this world a better place since we are not a cookie-cutter society. We are all human beings, but have different viewpoints from time to time & laws keep us from destroying ourselves.

In our society we have the right to express ourselves in any way we choose as long as it does not violate the law. I don't like or condone the acts of the KKK, those who uphold the past of slavery, nor do I the Black Panther party.

Though, these parties have the right under statues of our constitution to express their views, but without malice or terrorism.

I have the choice to either listen & maybe be enraged or ignore them & live my life to make a difference where their views are concerned.

This is quite an interesting subject & I do hope it continues in the spirit of good dialogue & not confusion.

Rome
 
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chillwolf said:
Very well said Rome! I have no use or love for any groups that espouse hate and violence. :nono:
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Ahhh cw!
If only we as a society would be more understanding & compassionate when it comes to our fellow citizens.

Rome
 
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I guess I could add MP to the subject is that out of these groups one good thing happens from time to time is that a life is transformed. Take for instance the movie in your OP.

I have seen it & from the putrid beginning of this person's life, the end result was one that was transformed. The irony is that the lynchpin of focus for his racist views & others like him was the saving grace that changed his life.

There are hundreds of stories like this that happen everyday that go unnoticed.

Just think of the horrible & senseless acts of cruelty that have been committed just because of hate.

Rome
 
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ilusndweller said:
Best movie i've ever had to watch for a class (multicultural education). Great flick. In close second was "born in east l.a." (spanish):smoke::smoke:

//attached are my "south park-esque moral of the story" comments on the movie after I saw it (do not leave laptop in trunk in summer, had to take pic)
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Sorry to hear of the demise of your lap top. Interesting paper, and there are so many points that can be jumped to from it. Critical thinking is a skill that is tough to develop, but it makes observing life far more interesting.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
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